I mean, it wasn’t arbitrarily connected. Klebold and Harris cited Doom by name.
You can’t take my BJ away from me.
DDD: You can’t take my BJ away from me.
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my reading of Wolf2 drama so far:
- game is revealed, you kill Nazis in America
- there’s loads of people frustrated about the current state of American politics so they project their frustration and anger on Wolf2, which enables them to massacre bunch of Nazis virtually
- some gamer contingency prolly associated with gamergate takes the bait and gets offended by it. comes off as if they are defending Nazis, which maybe a small minority does defend, but the real objection of course was that many people online cheering for the game were not really excited about killing historical Nazis, but projecting any slightly right-wing real life population onto the virtual Nazis in the game. but that contingency is largely stupid too so made it look like they were actually defending nazis, lmao.
but i guess I have no real problem that it taps into the leftist power fantasy myself, although I do think it’s more by accident than intention.
it’s Wolfenstein. there’s no “taking the bait”, like it was some kind of secret hidden agenda. killing nazis is a benchmark for the entire series. honestly imo, any projected backlash against this says more about the people than the game. i don’t know a single person who honestly looked at the trailers to this new release and thought of this, a game that has had the exact same enemies and basic plot structure for over 30 years, as a “leftist power fantasy”. that is a new thing being projected onto it.
yes Bethesda has capitalized on the current political climate, but the current political climate is that more people are not afraid to be identified as Nazis, which is, uh, unsettling to say the least. to me, there’s no distinguishing from a “historical” nazi to someone who marches and speaks with people who are ok about championing these ideas. i don’t give a shit if most of these guys are being “ironic” or “just in it to spite the SJWs” or whatever.
i can’t believe i have to say this but Nazi ideas, historically or otherwise, shouldn’t exist. there’s no nuance.
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even knowing that “leftist power fantasy” is a concept being projected onto this game which comes about at a good time (and which was already on course for this to be its story and setting by this point, really, if it were to continue…) i’m, uh, totally fine with that. i mean, the notion that it’s bugging nazis and exposing gamers with shitty gamergate-cum-neo-nazi leanings…? wolfenstein seems even more like a beacon, a talisman of catharsis.
and again, until proven otherwise i’m gonna believe machinegames feel good about what they’ve made. declaring the presence it has right now to be ‘accidental’ really doesn’t sit right with me.
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… leftist power fantasy? Murdering Nazis isn’t a side thing in America. It’s a proud tradition in our media, from Captain America to Hogan’s Heros, to Wolfenstein, to a litney of WW2 movies, and beyond.
I mean it’s a power fantasy, but it’s about as politically charged as Left 4 Dead, Doom, or the game this is a sequel to which NOBODY complained about killing Nazis a few years back.
God just last year I could think 'Nazis again? How boring and uncreative, can’t we just move on’
Now I have to be engaged with the Idea, frankly, this marketing push has me considering buying a game I would have thought boring months ago because killing Nazis just became relevant again.
I’ll say though too that twitter thing, it was like what 5 a-holes saying stupid things and everyone else just reacting to them. Really? How many were from 4chan just being dicks?
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I am aware of it. I meant that the reaction and the current climate politicized the power fantasy, as such I don’t think it’s particularly offensive to call it leftist power fantasy. But I get your point. It’s definitely not exclusive to leftists.
Funny that you mention it’s an American tradition, since it proves my point on how I roll my eyes any time people call nationalist conservative parties or anyone slightly conservative a Nazi because the concept of Nazi as villains is inseparable from the fact that they happened to piss in the pool of Allies nations, ie their villainy is inseparable from the Third Reich war machine. The condemnation of the actual ideology taking precedence over their belligerence in WWII is a much later product.
look,
these nationalist conservative parties or people who are on the right wing/conservative side, have members (to say generously) who are absolutely complicit to these ideals and causes. a lot of them certainly didn’t outright condem them, let alone the fact that the current President of the US, a man who ran on right wing politics and & anti-PC culture and everything else these guys are about, still says that there are “good people on both sides” and no, there are not good people on both sides.
if you get offended that the right wing and conservative parties keep getting associated recently with Nazis, then it’s time to take a look at why exactly that is
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Wolfenstein is only political if you think that the killing and murdering of Nazis is an extremist, contemporary, reactionary viewpoint
it fucking isn’t
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why should I give a shit about anyone worried about being confused for nazis
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probably a modern and more zealous take on Liberal Crime Squad:
http://lcs.wikidot.com
I wonder if the IT-HE guy will have as much of a dismayed reaction to this as he did with New Order
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Oh no i think any group other than white straight males is inferior and people are calling me a nazi! How about fuck you and fuck nazis.
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In itself, the game is probably not political. I said that in my original post. But I’m not going to pretend that it doesn’t tap into the current political climate, and as such, it has become political. I’ve definitely seen many posts being excited about killing Nazis (moreso than before) that are passive aggressive jabs at present political environment, so of course it has become politicized. Then the gamergat0rs throw oil to the fire as well with their reaction and…let’s say that consuming and critiquing this game will be political, at least in circles that discuss video games, there’s no way around it.
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I have no idea how you equate nationalist conservatism with white straight males being superior race, but uh, sure. but I apologize if I came off as too tonedeaf, I tend to have a more global view of matters since I am not American (although i served my time in an academic institution there) and I understand that certain statements are painful in the US context. I don’t think this discussion will bear further fruit anyway.
It shouldn’t need to be said but what’s happening in america isn’t a bunch of over eager leftists ready to paint anyone slightly conservative with the nazi brush just so they can justify punching them or whatever you think it is. We have literal fascists marching in the streets.
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then you simply haven’t been watching any current events related to American political policy lately
Yeah this has always made me wildly suspicious of WWII jingomedia - the typical Nazi victory dreadline in Britain has been “you could’ve grown up speaking German!!” not “you could’ve grown up being into genocidal racism” specifically
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Uhh okay let me break it down for you the white straight men that have ruled everything forever do not want to anyone else at the table of power or equality as it has grown to be more likely possibile (as other white straight men go yeah this is fucked up (do I need to explain why this is fucked up?)). The white straight men’s undercurrent of being racist sexist bastards is brought more forward.
And they are racist sexist bastards.
So they are doubling down on being racist sexist bastards that they have been getting away with for all of history. And they hate being called on being racist sexist bastards because they honestly don’t believe those are bad things and they are in charge and you should shut up.
When they say America they mean sexist racist America run by white straight men. This has always been what they meant. It never didn’t mean that. That’s what conservativism means all over the world (replace white with different regional races.)
And fuck them. They like to talk about people getting by on merits but what that means is a black woman will never be good enough (see how Venus Williams (the world’s greatest Tennis player ever) is treated by everyone?))
And then they like to use a liberals williness to be wrong as a tool to trick them. Look i am just talking about IDEAS IDEAS like genocide of the Jews and Black races. How all gay people should be castrated. How trans people aren’t humans.
We were making progress worldwide towards treating everyone like people and now there is a worldwide push back by white straight men to put everyone in their place:below the rich white men.
This has been my attempt to be more long form but here’s another way Fuck Nazis.
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Wheee…
So this is a video game forum. IDK how far I should dig. But what Raziel said bothered me because stating this as a leftist power fantasy bothers me, it furthers a political divide that is already too entrenched. I know now Raziel is trying to come at this with an outside eye, but still no. Nazis are a problem, white supremacists are a problem.
What @Rudie is saying outside of any context of the game is bothering me too. Look things like Wolfenstein are great for mindless fun. Kill they Nazis they are bad yay. But this real-world take on them as being so simplest that they would view themselves in a way which is purported to be a cartoonish villain is a problem that speaks to the mentality @Raziel brought up. It turns out the media that is hitting this issue more directly is Star Trek Discovery, as it’s mostly a nationalist vs. globalist debate that current white supremacists answer to. At least I hope. I don’t dive into the mire of that hate often, but they don’t want often to be labelled Nazis or Racists anymore. They say America is a White land people of another color should go to ‘their’ land. Still bad, still problematic don’t get me wrong. But this better aligns with more standard right-wing ideals of immigration, job loss, etc etc etc. I.E. most of them can fall back to the defence of not wanting to harm anyone or treat them poorly but that they don’t’ want them here. Again I don’t support any of this, I think when you look at the consequences of following that mentality you see how it’s a harmful one to everyone. I just am troubled by conflating a lot of people with the actual Nazis that have come out in America recently that are beyond true evil.
In short, everyone hates Nazis.