I will make a Pokemon of you 2.0 [Welcome to the Sun/Moon Meta: Video Warriors]

Yeah, I really like your 'mon.

You’re still really damn fast–among the fastest unboosted 'mon in the game. And–actually–when I ran some calcs you were surprisingly damage resistant in OU, due to your typing. I’m pretty sure there are at least a handful of OU threats that you check, so I might be able to sneak you onto an OU team as a percentage wall breaker.

I’ll definitely give you U-Turn, a move that does a bit of damage and allows you to switch to an ally without losing the turn to a hard switch. In your case, you’ll almost always be going first, so it really helps you stay alive, because in most cases you can just bail to a bulky teammate who can take the hit. Basically, this makes you awesome at maintaining momentum.

I have two builds in mind for you: one option is the same as your previous build, except I swap Cross Poison for U-Turn. The other option is to go full-on into using you as utility. I’d take all your Attack investment and put it into HP so you become pretty bulky. I then replace Brave Bird with Toxic. So, you can instantly cut any opponent’s HP in half, badly poison anything not Poison or Steel type, heal up when needed, and U-Turn out of there when the match-up is bad. This is probably the better OU build, but I’ll need to check the calcs and see if the bulk investment is worth it and if Brave Bird is okay to sacrifice.

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For those who are interested, here’s a quick low-ladder match from tonight with an SB OU team that shows some promise. Think I’m gonna swap GrimmSweeper for nocode, though.

@gary makes her battle debut and does a lot of work, and @kilroy stands up to one of most threatening Dark types in the meta.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-581041063

Hey guys.

Decided to work a bit on putting together a solid UU team of 'mon who are exclusive to the UU tier (no ringers who will likely get use on an OU team).

Still haven’t quite worked out a good synergy, but I thought I’d post a battle to keep the thread going.

This line up is a variation on the one I used for most of the night. I originally had Arone on the team instead of Cuba, but I was getting frustrated with every battle turning into a game of footsy. So I just threw Cuba on there, because I knew he had strong defenses, without thinking that half the team would then be super vulnerable to Knock Off. Whoopsie!

I’m basically posting this because @Mikey really got to shine. Buddy, it was your 100% accurate Toxics (a bonus of your Poison typing) early on that confirmed the later victory in this battle. Otherwise it would have been really hairy.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-583379806

Actually, you might also be interested in this narrow loss, in which you do your job perfectly (poisoning half the team), but then the rest of the battle kind of falls apart because the team has no real synergy. We’re gonna have to bring someone on who’s a real hard hitter to keep up momentum mid-game. Persona should be an effective endgame sweeper, but I keep having to bring him out early.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-583371760

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Alright Boyos, I’m happy to say that we have our first fairly successful UU team!

The lineup is

  • @Alyx
  • @Mikey
  • @u_u
  • Dark Age Iron Savior
  • Frank Cifaldi
  • And–ya boy–BIGHEADMODE

I tried to resist adding myself to a UU team for two reason: 1) Nobody will get excited to see me in a battle 2) I’m perfectly usable in OU, and a bit of a powerhouse in UU.

Buuuut our UU roster seems to lack a strong win condition, and I wanted to win some battles. Similarly, people probably aren’t excited to see Frank on the roster, but he’s a great answer to some major threats in the UU (Keldeo and Mega-Aerodactyl), and his wall-with-great-coverage-and-three-methods-of-recovery perfectly matches my playstyle.

In terms of synergy, I think the team still leaves something to desire.

Mikey, Geoff, and u_u sooooooort of form a core, in that Mikey and Geoff are immune to each other’s major weaknesses and u_u is super-resistant to Ice. However, all three of you are weak to Psychic, which makes you reliant on the rest of the ensemble in plenty of situations. u_u worked as a potent fire threat, but in the battles below you’ll see me reacting really poorly to Celebi, because nearly the whole team fears either Psychic or Giga Drain. u_u could OHKO Celebi, but Celebi outspeeds, I don’t think he survives Psychic, and even if he did, the recoil from Flare Blitz would take him out.

So yeah: I want to tinker more, but overall it was a pretty good night.

I tried to record some video commentary, but my app was acting weird; and now it’s late. So maybe I’ll set some battles aside from tonight to comment on over the weekend. There are definitely some that I think are more interesting if you know what’s going on in my head.

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Overall:

@Mikey continues to do major work as a reliable utility player. You kneecap other utilities with Taunt and it seems like I’m able to poison half the opponent’s team with 100% guaranteed Toxics. You basically lay the groundwork for each win.

@Alyx, you get some good OHKO’s in and overall do your job. As we got higher in the ladder, it was better and better to bring you out early to gain initial momentum and take us to the mid-game.

@u_u Unfortunately, I don’t think you really get a chance to shine in these battles. You definitely get some use, but I end up using you as a threat a lot and playing footsie. However, based on tonight’s battles I’ve put U-Turn back on you, which will allow you to do damage when switching out–something that would have made you a lot more threatening during our footsie matches, below.

SHEDINJA IS TOTALLY BROKEN DUDE THERE’S JUST NO WAY TO BEAT IT!!!

Heavy mind games in the late game. Really nice battle.

Heavy mind games in the middle.

Hax man. Fucking hax.

We just DOMINATE this dude. Until…

DAISy: Purveyor of Rage Quits

Nothing is as powerful as a Clefable whose time has come.

S rank for a reason.

A clever game of cat and mo–oh fuck it: here goes nothin’!

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Hey Guys,

This is my first attempt in a while to get a team going in OU. Basically, I wanted to get @la_ciel in the mix, but his best partner is @Ronk. Together, they form a core with no type weaknesses. Unfortunately, Ronk is banned from UU, which means we have to find a way to survive in the OU meta, which it currently full of big, scary super-attackers and super-walls, none of which remind me enough of any SB posers to incorporate into our team.

Except! @ToruMasuda’s 'mon–musharna–has, unfortunately, turned out to be pretty hard to implement in either the OU or UU metas. In UU, it’s too susceptible to Knock Off and can’t attack the many Dark 'mon who are immune to its one attack. And its stats really can’t hack it in the inflated OU meta.

And…well…I’d actually considered making him a Tangrowth all along. And it turns out that this gen Tangrowth is one of the top threats in OU, with the ability to wall major threats, and great attack coverage.

So! I figured Toll was owed a re-roll that also happened to give our team the advantage needed to be competitive.

This team hasn’t proven to be super reliable, but it’s a decent first step into the meta, and we get to see everyone put in some work in these battles.

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FYI Toll, I forgot to add your name to the pokemon for most of these battles, but the tangrowth is you.

@la_ciel destroys some of the meta’s top threats.

I realize that I forgot to add @gary’s stat boosts, so @kilroy and @ToruMasuda do some tap dancing to save the day.

We steamroll this chump. @drobe puts in some solid work.

A real squeaker with an unusual team.

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am i tall enough to ride this pokemon coaster yet or do i have to put in a few more years of hormone aided growth

Honestly, we need fresh meat for the grinder.

It takes me forever to pick a 'mon and do the write-up, though, so you’ll need to be patient. Liiiiike two weeks or two months patient.

But yeah: the more the merrier!

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Can I also request a mon?

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Hey guys, sorry for the sporadic updates. I guess this thread is probably officially a sometimes thing for me at this point. No new 'mons for talbain and clint quite yet, though I did a bit of work on them.

Was watching some replays yesterday and today, so I got the itch to build an SB team.

I’ve been resisting making this team for a while, for reasons that will make sense in a bit. As I’ve previously mentioned, the OU format this generation is unbalanced to say the least (whereas UU is, like, a perfectly balanced game). I wrote previously about the type homogeneity. Some bans have happened since then, but it hasn’t really effected the character of the meta from what I’ve seen. One thing I didn’t get into was team composition.

A video by super-good-player blunder kind of isolated the major conflict in OU right now, which is this: balanced teams are basically totally ineffective vs. hyper-aggressive teams and stall teams, and stall teams are basically unstoppable. There are Reasons for this, which maybe I’ll get into more in another post if y’all are interested, but basically it comes down to the fact that preparing for stall makes you weak to non-stall, whereas there’s really no risk to just running stall.

For those who don’t know: “stall” is running really bulky pokemon who aren’t usually great attackers and just wearing down your opponent gradually. Pokemon is generally a pretty fast game with average game length running around 20-25 moves. However, stall often runs 40+ moves. In addition, it really doesn’t take as much skill to succeed at stall, since your bulkiness offers a cushion for mistakes. The skill in pokemon is in knowing all the major checks and counters, sizing up your opponent’s team, determining your win conditions, and predicting your opponent’s moves. If your experienced enough, prediction is a lot less of a guess than–say–poker, and it ends up more akin to any physical sport, where high level play is basically in split-second readings of you opponent’s shoulders and hips. Once a certain level of athleticism is reached, many sports come down to speed and accuracy of prediction, and pokemon is similar–somewhere between the pondering of a board game and the twitch readings of soccer or baseball.

But yeah: you can get away with much less skill by playing stall. And I’ve heard top players say that if you’re actually good and play stall, you basically can’t lose.

So, since stall teams usually result in drawn out battles in which the opponent has to constantly struggle and anticipate while the stall player barely breaks a sweat, stall is HATED on the ladder. For some people, the attitude is, “Dude, the ladder is for fun. Save the safety plays for tournaments.” For others it’s just, “WHY DON’T YOU WANT ME TO HAVE FUN; YOU ARE WORSE THAN HITLER.”

So yeah: I made a stall team.

Really, when it comes down to it, I was really into stat boost moves when I made you guys, and–while most of our aggressive 'mon are now totally out-classed in OU–our powerful walls are now downright evil.

So, anyway, I laddered us up a bit from zero. I didn’t really get up to the good players yet, but so far this is by far our most effective Sun/Moon team. 'Course, playing it makes me feel a little slimy, so I’m gonna try to put together some other teams that won’t get us booed out of the stadium.

Battles in the next post.

@Tulpa gets the night’s first rage quit.

@Toups takes care of a pesky charizard.

@Torumasuda saves the day!

@Tulpa establishes a pattern.

Probably shouldn’t let me set up like that.

@la_ciel and @Persona give their bodies for mind games.

FYI, @la_ciel we’re using an unconventional alternate build for you. You have the same typing and a somewhat similar stat balance to the top threat in the meta game (landurs-therian). The big difference is that you’re way more physically defensive, while lando is more physically offensive. However, one of the most useful builds for lando is as a defensive pivot–a roll that you’re arguably more suited for. So, I made you into a utility player and slapped you with an item that does damage to opponents if they attack you physically.

That’s why I keep you in play against the dragonite in that last battle. When you put up rocks, that was an ultimatum for the power-up dragonite. If it left the ring then, the rocks would kill it upon re-entry. However, every time it attacked you, it lost a little bit more life, and it couldn’t OHKO you. It had a move that would always go first which would OHKO the rest of the team, so it was vital to trick it into hitting you again and again until death. That bit was honestly a bit of a nail biter.

Your roll on this team is to take hits, clear hazards, set your own hazards, heal up, and just overall be a nuisance.

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Come on son you know this doesn’t matter

Well, I think it’s more fun if it’s fairly regular, but–I dunno–trying to exercise, get back in shape, so my weeknights don’t have much time left if I want to get more than 4 hours sleep. So yeah.

Hey Y’all,

I know a couple of you are interested in this thread as a window into the Showdown metagame (@CourierRice @sleepysmiles ), so I’ve been meaning to link to some YouTube videos that can act as updates on the current status of the meta. Buuuuut…some bans happened that made some videos moot, and I also didn’t really want to get into explaining all of them.

However! One of my fave Showdown YouTubers, Thunder Blunder just released his updated OU metagame analysis. It might seem a bit long and may be slightly in the weeds for some, but this dude really really knows his stuff:

Those of you guys interested in the metagame might also be interested in the dominance of stall and shadowy plot to oust dugtrio from the meta. Joey makes good points in this vid, but I think stall will still be pretty good in the meta, even without diglet.

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In other meta news, here’s a rundown of some of the big events of the last month or so:

Baton Pass
Probably the most dramatic council decision was the banning of baton pass from OU. Basically, baton pass was already banned from the other popular metas for being broken as hell, but it held on for generations in OU, because OU tends to have competitive enough 'mon that baton pass strats are never unbeatable. Plus, I think people just kind of like the novelty of it; and there are certain 'mon that just fit it so well, such as scolipede. For those who don’t know, baton pass is a move that switches the 'mon in play for another 'mon but also pass along all stat boosts and substitutes. Typically, you just start with a hearty 'mon, set up, then pass to a really powerful 'mon which will now be unstoppably fast and powerful. There are obvious counters, such as Unaware Clefable (ignores stat boosts of opponents) or moves like haze or gastric acid (negates opponents stats) or roar if you’re early enough (forces an opponent switch, but always goes last). But it’s a pain to be forced to bring those unpopular moves on the off-chance that your opponent is a jerk using a low-skill strategy. So it was determined to be broken in an unfun way and finally banned from OU.

A Bunch of Bans and Downgrades
A bunch of 'mon were traded between OU and UU last month. When it comes to our 'mon, I believe (off the top of my head) Keldeo, Gengar, and Clefable were banned from UU, whereas Mamoswine, Mega-Beedrill, and Weavile were unbanned from UU. Again, 'mons make it to UU when there statistical usage is below 5% in OU. Doesn’t mean they’re necessarily unviable in OU, though it’s usually a strong indicator.

New Megas
The megas for Gardevoir and Gallade are now released, which is good news for Schroeder and Glam Grimfire. Before that, megas for swampert and sceptile. The former is pretty viable, the latter not so much.

Aaaaand perhaps most fun of all, a super powerful 'mon was released and then almost instantly banned. I’ll give that one its own post, because I’ll post multiple videos.

So, basically, Marshadow is designed to be overpowered. As you guys know, I don’t actually play cartridge Pokemon these days, so I have no idea what this thing is in the games–is it a secret final boss or something?

It has really high speed and attack stats which make it a fantastic sweeper (it’s one of the fastest 'mon in the game), great typing, and a unique move that’s just absurd.

Spectral Thief has a pretty high 90 base power and it steals your opponent’s stat boosts and gives them to you. So, you have this natural sweeper that you can’t set up against. It also hase the ability technician, which boosts low-BP moves, and it has a +1 priority STAB ghost move that just barely qualifies as low-BP enough for the boost. So even if you are outsped, you can still use priority for massive damage.

The thing was just a beast, and everyone knew it would be quickbanned, so it seemed to be everywhere for, like, a week. Those who are interested can live the saga vicariously through these three videos:

Okay, one more community update for tonight.

I originally wasn’t going to post this, because it’s kind of negative, but…aw man, it’s too good.

Basically, a popular PKMN YouTuber did a full diss track against another PKMN YTber who is pretty much universally reviled. The track and video are both way better than they should be, and of course it’s complete with metagame references ("I’m trappin’, I’m trappin’, I’m trappin, [Dugtrio])

So, backstory: basically, there’s this pokemon YTber called Verlisify. He takes his channel super seriously, puts a lot of work into it, and seems to be living pretty well off those earnings. He makes some fun theory-monning videos where he goes through the full list of fully evolved 'mon and tries to come up with builds that will make them viable. He also does a cool series called Fan Fridays, in which people send in their trickiest battles. Dude is way into tricky, unusual builds, which is fine.

Buuuut, okay: it goes negative. Dude also has a habit of making unviable builds and declaring them OP. And all indications are that he’s not really very good at pokemon, though he fronts like he’s the best. When this is brought up, he’s not humble about it; he goes defensive and aggressive hard. On top of this, he has a way of building bad blood with other major players in the community and just does dick things like mobilizing his base to dislike competitors videos, etc. He has tons of fans, but among the community he’s pretty hated. Oh, he also hates Showdown, and pretty much every opinion he has about the meta is dumb.

So yeah. I kind of feel bad for him, because he’s clearly a very insecure person. But, on the other hand, he once tweeted something along the lines of, “Why would you ever defend Muslims? Don’t you understand that they want to destroy your way of life?” So yeah: I basically just think he’s dumb, and he really brings this stuff on himself.

Hey guys,

I felt like a jerk using full stall, so I put together a more balanced team that did terribly. Then I said fuck it, and grabbed Tulpa and @Toups for the perfect defensive core that they are. I picked Exodus (Brandon) as the sweeper, since his build would be great for clean up after Tulpa and Toups have weakened the team. Brought back boojiboy7 and drobe, because they’re solid; and we needed someone who can reliably kill Landorus-T, which has become the #1 threat in the OU metagame (booji OHKO’s with priority). And–finally–I added CourierRice, as insurance, since their gimmick simply works when nothing else will.

The resulting team did quite well (winning 8 games with one loss), so I think you guys constitute the first reliable team of the Sun/Moon OU meta! Ba-ba-ba-baa-baa-baa-bup-ba-baaaaaa!

Peek below to enjoy your spoils.

A French guy plays terribly and gets very mad at us for winning.

@Tulpa sets everyone on fire. Brandon cleans up.

@CourierRice cleans up the leftovers.

@drobe dies, so our opponent forfeits?

@boojiboy7 sweeps.

FYI: BBP, if you’re reading this because I recommended that you watch this thread, rest assured that I am trying to fit you on a winning team. It’s just…not quite working out. You should be quite viable in this meta, so I’m not sure what the issue is–maybe the synergy with the rest of the squad is bad or I’m just not the best at using you. In any case, I’ll keep trying.

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