I will make a Pokemon of you 2.0 [Welcome to the Sun/Moon Meta: Video Warriors]

King of Posters
222

There wasn’t so much attempts at synergy or cleverness as much as trying to be as anti-meta as possible against the nascent chaos- the mons I threw around were just some of the very few counters to ridiculous new / returning powerhouses that mostly will probably be banned in the upcoming months. The perfect offensive pivot Pheromosa or the “unwallable” Greninja can’t do anything to Toxapex, the ridiculous thunder of Xurkiree and Tapu Koko as well as their paltry coverage goes straight to Alolan-Marowak’s Lightning-Rod bone, the other totem pixies and lethal origami Kartana get smashed by rocketship Celesteela (without using Automotize there’s actually extremely little non-Uber pokemon lighter than her, so Heavy Slam better than Iron Head), and Mandibuzz used to be famed just for countering the perfect-concept-overwhelming-execution Aegislash and absurd neutral-coverage Hoopa-Unbound. Fuck Thunderbolt Genesect, though.

I’ll try for some actually-thought-out, clever team-building in a few weeks, when the metagame is still unstable but isn’t defined heavily by the cockroach queen and the haunted swords (and probably instead by Níðhöggr). Special-sweeper Celesteela is pretty tempting, I’ll admit.

223

Well, the special-sweeper build is a fun idea, but I guess in the way under-regulated official meta, I it would probably have pretty limited longevity. Basically, a really powerful sweeper or wall breaker could take it down pretty handily. Though if you swap Life Orb for Leftovers who knows?

I solely play Showdown and will probably never buy or play Sun & Moon proper, so my perception of what builds work is skewed. That build would clean up in OU, because there are only a handful of 'mon that could OHKO or 2HKO that typing with defenses that high. But I have an inkling that it will end up in the Uber format eventually, anyway.

It’s really cool to hear that Game Freak is actually thinking in terms of balancing. It’ll take more than celesteela to balance Fairy’s inherent type advantages, though.

Toxapex looks reeeeeeally cool. Merciless is so tempting, but obviously Regenerator is just fucking evil. Oh man, it can learn Infestation! Infestation is possibly the most underrated move in the game, but it’s yet to find the pokemon that can really show it off (the best I’ve found is Swalot with some set-up). Toxapex is tanky and poiaon-y enough that it could be The One.

I wonder if we’ll flip back to an overly stall-y meta or if GF will succeed at balancing the overly sweepy meta that developed last gen.

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Ohmygodyoucangiveitstockpile

Toxapex @ Black Sludge  
Ability: Regenerator  
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 SpD  
Careful Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Stockpile  
- Baneful Bunker  
- Infestation  
- Recover

Infestation is technically an attack move, so it can’t be taunted. Black sludge just to punish Trick and for ambient healing. Spiky Helm is a good idea too. Lum Berry might actually be the safest bet, because it would cure a surprise burn and allow you to switch in a fire type to take the next one. Maybe paired with Heatran to get overheat.

With three stockpiles in, this guy’s defensive stats are literally at 950 each.

So this thing is can be nearly unkillable.

You know, this is great for me. The more stall-heavy the meta becomes the more useful my pet project of “Percentage Stall-Breakers”–pokemon that rely on damaging by set percentages and numbers to simply bypass defensive stats entirely–becomes.

Basically, superfang + will-o-wisp or nightshade/seismic toss can take this thing down pretty handily, and I think it would eventually win the war of attrition with celesteela.

225

Huh. Weird that they made salandit evolve into a sweeper. That’s…a pretty big waste.

I mean, the whole point is that it has Corrosion, but why would you use a sweeper to poison and burn things? It’ll die the next turn. And–Corrosion aside–Fire/Poison would have been a really interesting stall typing, because it could not be burned or poisoned itself, except by another salazzle. But as it stands, it’s just a sweeper with an ability that doesn’t at all help it with its role.

So yeah: it’ll be used against Fairies, I guess. Except azumarill can proplbably OHKO it with its priority water move. So, like, whatever. Waste of a great ability/typing.

226

I doubt any ultra-beast besides Pheromosa is doomed to Ubers- Beast Boost is very solid, but their lopsided stats and tilted movesets / typings mostly leave them with huge gaping weaknesses of coverage and defenses. Celesteela is very neat amongst them for actually being bulky and balanced enough with barely enough of a movepool to do a ton of things, but even it gets easily fried by STAB on its weaknesses. If there’s anything I’m worried about, it’s the Tapus and their instant team support + sheer power + equal versatility- Tapu Lele is the most absurd butterfly-potato-pot pixie possible. Tapu Bulu stall/breaking, Tapu Lele hyper offense, and Tapu Koko Rain will dominate the meta once anything actually settles down, I swear it. Maybe even Aegislash might be kept just to hold the meta together…

Toxapex is too good as a pivot and status spreader for me to think that an anti-stall trapping would be any sensible- there’s a narrow field of good targets for it to trap, and certain wallbreakers / set-up (freaking Manaphy, ugh) laugh at even those defenses at +3. Burn was nerfed by half, incidentally.

Salazzle’s ability is clearly meant for something new in the future, and Salazzle herself will sink comfortably into… RU. Until then, it technically allows catching Heatran and Toxapex with a Toxic on the switch-in, who are both otherwise hard counters.

227

I saw from the other thread that you’re using a simulator and not playing the actual game. So are you using Showdown or something else? It looked to me like the movelists for new mon weren’t officially added yet, but I could just be out of the loop and missing something. Are yo just planning based off the known moves?

Also, if you’re a Showdown player, what formats do you play? Sounded earlier that you were thinking in terms of VGC, so I figured you were actually playing the cart.

I definitely err towards theory-moning, so I always have to keep in mind that my fun ideas might not work out. I also think I’m a pretty mediocre tactican, mostly because I spend more time building than battling.

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On the very first day of Sun / Moon’s official release, Showdown’s main server didn’t have the new 'mons up, so people flocked to another server that rushed on it briefly. The following days, everything as a beta was put up on the main server (noticeably with a Pokebank split, and even without that split there are a bunch of Mega Stones locked out from Gen 7).

I didn’t play anything but OU very recently to see the fresh new content / unban chaos, but once it all settles down the calculation vaguaries and how much double-prediction is needed to ladder will make me flock to the Other Metagames of Gen 7 for their format creative potential.

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Hey Select Butts–long time no 'mon.

I’ve decided to dip my toe into the Sun/Moon meta lately (after something like a six month break), and so I thought I’d return to our illustrious poke-gladiators and see how well they fair under these new conditions.

The OU meta has changed quite a bit. In one sense the overall poke-meta has gotten quite broad in that the threat list is a lot more populated than usual. Though–in another sense–I feel like type dominance has really narrowed in a kind of boring way. Maybe I’ll write more on that later.

In any case, my goal with this thread was always to take you guys and make sure every single one of you was in a balanced, useful team and to start posting narrated videos of your various poke-travails. I actually did a bit of this months ago, but had technical issues with keeping everything in sync. However, now armed with a new computer and some renewed enthusiasm, I think I can continue with the project if you guys still have an interest.

For now, I’m going to continue to try to use you guys in the most popular Over Used tier, though–really–the majority of you would probably now do better in the UU tier. But! We’ll see how it shakes out.

I’ll post a “pilot” battle below, and I guess I’ll gauge by y’all’s reaction if this is something I should do more of.

1 Like
230

Okay, so this team features:
@Gate88
@SageGrimm
@108
@ronk
@CourierRice
@Alyx

Basically, I wanted to get SageGrimm in the mix, because he hasn’t really gotten to shine in the thread but he’s fun to play, since he’s such a straightforward glass canon. Gate88 and Ronk can take Fairy, Bug, and Fighting hits meant for him as needed, and 108 can take Poison hits meant for Ronk (sorta–he’s also a glass canon). SageGrimm and 108 are speedy wallbreakers, whereas The King is a med-speed wall breaker, and Ronk is slow but with great typing and good bulk. Gate88’s hazards bring even type-resistant opponents in range of OHKO, and Courier’s Airslash gambit picks up any lost momentum and handles opponents who have set up on Gate88 or are otherwise troubling the team.

We don’t really have a sweeper, which is ill-advised but comfortable for me. In theory, it’s a fairly balanced team, but I’ve seen in other battles that the typing is too focused in the dark/ghost/psychic end of the pool, and I end up using Ronk as a pivot, which is not his best use.

Anyway, here’s some action. I probably won’t do another video with this exact team, but it was a fun little match.

3 Likes
231

Super glad this is back, because this is probably the closest I’ll ever get to participating in the metagame.

Also, I thought I heard you call the mega charizard “dragonite” and I wasn’t sure if that was a slip up or an in-community joke since mega charizard is the one that’s finally a dragon type?

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Oh, just a mistake. I also called Forretress “Ferrothorn”. Trying to be less of a perfectionist lately, especially for stuff like this where the early version can just be a pilot that will be forgotten.

233

oh good this thread is active again, now I get a chance to say “you really dropped the ball in not calling it “I’ll Make A 'Mon Out Of You”” without necromancying it

1 Like
234

that rules but i still think this would have been the best title

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Hey Y’all,

So, after doing some calculator checks, trying to figure out how viable each of you might be in the new Sun & Moon OU meta, two things became clear:

  1. We should probably just create some UU teams, because pretty much everyone was knocked down a peg by shifting type advantages.
  2. If I’m going to build effective teams in one meta that’s new to me and one that I’ve never really played, I should probably take a hard look at how viable each of you are in different contexts and move on from there.

So, I decided to start by checking your viability rankings. Basically, leaders in the Smogon community put together viability rankings for the pokemon within each format. These are basically just tier listings, based on community input. As such, they’re inherently works in progress, but they give a good snapshot of the current meta.

In the table below, I’ve ranked all current SB 'Mon by their overall viability, first by their OU (Over-Used) rank and secondarily by UU rank (Under-Used). Pokemon who are officially in the OU format cannot compete in the UU format, so they have no ranking. UU pokemon can compete in the OU format, but they’re not included in the tier listing as they’re considered below a C- in viability. At the bottom, some of you guys are currently in the Rarely Used, Never Used, and PU (uh…that means you “stink”) rankings. As their names suggest, inclusion in the RU and NU formats really just means that you’re unpopular in competition. This doesn’t necessarily mean your 'mon isn’t viable; it could simply be shut out by better alternatives or hostile metas.

Personally, I think all of you can cut it in UU at least, and I think we’ll be able to squeeze some surprises into our OU teams as well (it’s not particularly unusual for a typically UU 'mon to be used in the OU).

When it comes to specific builds, I won’t be sticking to what I decided in the write-ups above; I’ll adjust as needed for the new meta, and I’ll write about it if I think the update is interesting or necessary to explain a battle.

If I pinged you to this post, it means that I thought you might be tickled to see where you rank. I’m not pinging anyone who I think may be bummed by their ranking. Again, these aren’t hard and fast, my goal is to find a way to get everyone on a viable team, and when I picked your 'mon I was intentionally matching you to a pokemon that I though could be used effectively in battle.

Anyway, I’ll split the table into the next post, since this one is super-long.

@drobe Didn’t I once see you embed a G-sheet directly into a forum post? That would definitely be preferable to to converting a G-sheet into an ugly HTML table…

1 Like
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The table below includes every pokemon in the SB league, ranked according to current Smogon tier listings for the OU and UU format meta. You can check the post above this one for more details and check the sources below to see where these rankings came from.

Poster Pokemon Pic OU Rank UU Rank
Gary Keldeo A A+
108 Gengar A A-
Drobe Magnezone A-  
BIGHEADMODE Clefable A- S
Kilroy Mew A- A
Toups Chansey A-  
Tulpa Sableye (Mega) A-  
BBP Gyarados B+  
Exodus Serperior B+  
boojiboy7 Mamoswine B  
Sagegrimm Weavile B  
Persona Reuniclus B B
Geoff Nidoking B- B
Ronk Azumarill B-  
Courier Rice Togekiss B- A-
nocode Gliscor B- A-
BBP (alt) Gyarados (Mega) B-  
Cifaldi Slowbro B- B+
Birch Beedrill (Mega) C+  
Rudie Dragonite C+  
tiburon Breloom C+  
Notyemnow Starmie C+ A
smith Ditto C  
sleepysmiles Celebi   A-
shrug Conkeldurr   B
Gate88 Forretress   B-
Father.Torque Doublade   B-
Evan Infernape   B+
DAISy Porygon2   C
ArOne Lucario   C+
Mikey Crobat   C+
Gorblax Snorlax   C+
Brooks Escavalier RU  
all monsters Rotom NU  
Loki Machamp NU  
Schroeder Gallade NU  
jsnlxndrlv Slurpuff NU  
ToruMasuda Musharna PU  
Aderack Beheeyem PU  
Schroeder Gallade (Mega) Unreleased  
Glam Grimfire Gardevoir (Mega) Unreleased

Sources:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-uu-viability-ranking-thread.3595093/
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-viability-ranking-thread.3590726/

@gary @108 @Kilroy @toups @Tulpa @BLUE_BLACK_PURPLE @boojiboy7 @SageGrimm @Persona @ronk @CourierRice

3 Likes
237

underused is the coolest tier anyway

(besides neverused obviously)

238

I’ve always been a B-minus kind of a guy

1 Like
239

Based on the viability list, it looks like UU is waaaaaaaaaaaaay more balanced than OU this gen.

Basically, I think the super-strong sweepers and walls that they added in SM have kind of ruined the meta. Like, I wouldn’t say that the Tappus are OP, because they all have plenty of checks. But they’re all Fairy type. So, the type that was way OP last gen was allowed to get even more OP.

In OU, this has pretty much forced out Dragon and Fighting types. Like, those two entire types with tons of great pokemon are almost unseen in the whole meta. Weirdly, thanks to some good dual-typing you still see Dark types, but there are fewer 'mon with access to Knock Off that are still viable in OU, so under those weird circumstances Psychic got a defacto buff within OU, which is nice.

A bunch of major threats happen to be weak to Ground, so now Earthquake is one of the most valuable moves in OU.

So, basically, OU is just down to Fairy, Steel, Ground, Poison, and (to a lesser extent) Water. Those five types basically define the meta, and everything else is just useful sometimes. It really kind of sucks.

Anyway, UU and NU really fit my playing style and interests better (I love coming up with weird builds for obscure 'Mon). I just never played in those formats, because I was too lazy to engage new metas, and also for me the ultimate test of a weird idea is seeing if it can work in the most popular and competitive meta. Buuuuut a lot of them can’t! So I think I’ll quit jamming square pegs and just play the formats as they’re intended–especially now that, like, half the old OU meta pokemon are now available in UU.

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I’m actually pretty excited to play your build. I think it’s pretty viable! Just gotta find the right team.

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I still think my build is rad