The News Grandmaster 4000


#4613

The dojin culture and even just the material culture surrounding ownership is just a wildly different mindset (good memories right now of buying a game online but having to walk over to Family Mart to pay for it on a kiosk so I could actually download it).

The existence of the dojin comic scene nurtured through spaces like the Comic Market existing as a force of energy that exists in tandem with but not parallel to the professional, corporate industry has given the dojin games scene a healthy, mutually supportive character. People care about the health of that scene in a way that Euro-American scenes just don’t.

But, yes, I think it’s absolutely true that there’s less get-rich-quick mentality there. Very few dojin circles are trying to make anything like a living off what they do. My understanding is that most of them take what they make from their works (made in their hobby time, apart from their full-time work) to pour back into buying other dojin creators’ works (I’ve talked to at least one person who does this and have read about it in multiple articles).

(Not sure I buy the greater diversity of genre line in dojin spheres, though–it’s different and possibly more diverse from what you see in commercial indie spaces outside of Japan, but I don’t think it’s actually more diverse from what you see in the broader English-language indie scene on platforms like itch (and even paid dojin works are usually only liminally commercial))


#4614

in the indie scene as a whole there might be all kinds of games coming out, but it feels like everytime i hear about a new western indie game there’s like a 70% chance of it being a puzzle platformer

that’s just how it feels though, and is probably wildly inaccurate


#4615

that’s not true at all!


#4616

More than half of what I make are puzzle platformers and my favorite dojin game is a puzzle platformer so my biases cloud my vision on this.

I am an emblem of the worthless conservative shit in games!


#4617

I think doujin is a good vision of what an indie scene unfocused on our metrics of success looks like, and the doujin scene is pretty cool, but it holds far, far fewer people, the average technical skill is much lower, and in my opinion there’s a much larger number of great and interesting things to come out of the western scene than the japanese one.

(My opinion is naturally formed by my social scene which is very close to the gaijin who started BitSummit because they desperately wanted the Japanese indie scene to be as vibrant as the western one, because we all grew up loving Japanese games)


#4618

You are literally the only person I have ever heard say this, please say more


#4619

For all the fucking Nazis in the videogame space there is such a huge unmined reservoir of real, actual European history that could make incredibly rich material for games and they just keep ignoring it in preference to their fake idealized storybook white-identity history, which, I mean of course they do, but man

Any given game of Europa Universalis IV contains a thousand adventure games and RPGs and 3D brawlers and Mount & Blade clones within it


#4620

the only changes anyone ever really talked about in indie games for the last decade was distribution/publishing and funding methods


#4621

Well that, and the increasing ease & ubiquitiy of gamemaking tools


#4622

Selling Indie Game: the Movie on Steam was some bullshit.


#4623

eh?


#4624

okay but did they fix the dupe bug


#4625

Just galaxy braining.


#4626

ah.


#4627

I mean, you’re not wrong; and I say this as someone who attended the Toronto premiere of the film (and who owns the Steam version)


#4628

And by “galaxy braining” here I mean with all this talk of indie game strike-it-rich dreams, IGTM seemed to be specifically created as a kind of (unwitting?) propaganda for telling everyone with a computer and an idea for a puzzle platformer that if they believed in their dream (by highlighting the success stories of Braid, Super Meat Boy, and Fez at the same time Notch was swimming in Minecraft early access money) they would be handsomely rewarded. Releasing the movie on Steam (effectively the home of those three games) sits weird with me still, especially in light of this whole conversation.

But also I never actually watched IGTM and I’m not actually industry so I’m at least half talking out my ass and immediately regretted posting it.


#4629

i just remembered that back in 2014 i tried to solve the issue i’ve been talking about here. i don’t want to clog up the news thread with stuff that isn’t related and anecdotal, but the short version is: i didn’t succeed!


#4630

oh, I see

It’s hard to contextualize because we all knew where those folks stood when the movie released, but it was brutal enough within what they went through that it was honest on the success stories.

It was interesting to see the romance film adds atop the life I was living because I was newly dipped into the separation of grinding difficult creative work; the separation from my old friends and family that is hard to express through words which that creative work entails (relatedly, the recent First Man is superb at expressing this). So seeing the big picture version was a communicative tool I used a few times and it was honest within that scope


#4631

Addendum: No indie scene I’ve ever been involved with sucked as much as TIGsource forums circa 2009-2012. Incestuous, forbidding, contemptible snobbery everywhere and they couldn’t stand the fact that the big fish (indie game authorities) in their small pool was evolving and the concept of what could be accomplished in indie games was growing.


#4632

I dig it. I think I also generally hate feel-good documentaries. I have problems.