managed to crawl out of iron with classic ryu. felt like a cruel god when i beat a guy so hard they rage-disconnected on me. like i get it now. playing this game well, seeing your opponents play well, is intoxicating. i like street fighter!!!
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Hard stuck in silver 4 right now. I need to get more consistent at combos and combo routes into supers. I can do them consistently in training mode but I panic every time I get an opening in a real match. It’s embarrassing how little I use my supers. My most used, by far, is lvl 1 that I use for reversals. Otherwise, I’ve only successfully comboed into super once, and I never remember to super after a DI reversal.
I also need to learn a combo out of my OD overhead. I can never remember what I’m supposed to do after I hit it.
I think I could pretty easily get to gold if I just punished harder.
I also lose to every grappler character because I’m not patient, despite playing a grappler myself. My Manon v Manon is 20%, and v. Zangief is 33%. Ugh!
Oh, and does Juri have a longer throw range than average? Feel like I’m always getting surprised by throws from her.
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it’s her dash/drive rush range/speed. juri players throw a lot because they can get it pretty much whenever they want
I think you’re overthinking things if you’re playing manon, just punishing with command grab is never a bad idea. just learn her anti air combos and grab people when they fuck up. run your 50/50 when you hit something.
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Yeah I almost never combo into super with Manon. I generally save meter for reversals cuz those supers are all she’s got.
This also gets me in trouble when I just throw the supers out recklessly but that’s just me being dumb sometimes.
Command grab does so much damage that I just use that whenever I can: I’ve practiced combos that get me medals but guaranteed damage and buffs is always better than something I might flub.
I’m approaching Diamond and it is a massive grind, so many folks will not rematch if they lose or a match was close, it really stinks. But whatever that’s ranked who cares
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yeah maybe i’ll need to look at my recent replays to get a sense of what’s really going on. i have a feeling about a few things but i’m inexperienced enough that i don’t really trust it to be 100% true.
it feels like i’m only landing throw reliably in two scenarios: after DI punishes and after the two pull target combos (MP → MK or HP → HP). at my level now, most everyone catches on and holds jump after the target combos and i feel like my punishes on that are not very good. what usually happens is that i only have the wherewithal to mash the HP crouching anti-air, which grounds them, and i lot of times i get OD reversaled on their wakeup. i was thinking it would be worth it to learn a better combo for that situation, either for a medal or higher damage, but it occurs to me now maybe i just need to learn how to be patient and shuffle their wakeup.
i also suspect i’m not drive rushing correctly or enough. occasionally i get raw drive rush throws but it’s very few and far between. manon’s DR feels so slow and awkward to use. and i’m very scared to cancel moves into drive rush because it feels so expensive.
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throw tech OS exploit has been patched and new Rashid-themed battle pass is live (though no release date for Rashid yet?)
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If you upload some videos I could offer some advice. Or I could just peek at your replays in-game if you want.
I currently just do the 2HP > HP target combo to anti air. I know the other combos that lead into grab but 2HP is pretty reliable and easy, y’know? I take that approach to all my combos, really. Not sure I really do anything aside from 2LK, 2LP, 214MK, and 4HP, 236MP on jumpins/corner punish. I follow up 5HK punish counters with 214LK or 214MK, not sure there’s any real difference in oki or damage or corner carry with those, I just use whichever strikes my fancy. Think working on getting and keeping folks in the corner has been better for me than grinding out bigger combos; finally nailing how to combo into 236P has been the biggest game changer really, I was flubbing that a ton for awhile there. Landing the command grab is much harder now than it was day one so I just try and poke with her medium strikes way more until I can fuckin’ throw.
I guess in the corner I sometimes do the one Trials mode combo with 2x 236KK but if I need medals I’ll follow up with 236P instead of 214MK. Recognizing which version of 236P I need to grab a medal off an AA’d airborne opponent has been beneficial but it took me awhile to get that down, I really think the biggest thing is to just be patient and punish people.
Lately I’ve fallen out of the habit of not hit confirming the 5hp > hp target combo which is embarrassing because it’s maybe the easiest hit confirm in the game but ALSO I’ve only been punished for it once so…other players gotta step up, diamond folks should not be letting me get away with that.
Yeah the range ain’t great and figuring out when to use it is more effort than, like, Deejay’s. I don’t use it raw super often. Usually just after I get a knockdown so I can have better oki. Manon’s sweetspot is like a full character length away from the opponent so 5MP canceled into DR followed by HP command grab has been pretty reliable so far, maybe a terrible idea if you’re fighting someone who’s mashing jab though. I think one of the reasons I’ve been struggling the last few days is cuz I keep forgetting to, like, tick throw so I should probably fix that. Anyway sorry if you know all this but I had fun blabbing on!! It’s frustrating being mired in the lower ranks when you’re clearly thinking of stuff your opponents probably aren’t but if you just keep blocking and Anti-Airing and baiting and punishing wakeup EX SRKs you’ll probably be out of there real fast, playing a patient, simple style will def pay off and you save all the cool Drive Rush shit for opponents who aren’t going to throw out so much random unsafe shit
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no yeah this is affirming!
i just need to play more and get more game sense, i think; when i play smash i have an intuitive sense for what i should be doing, but i don’t have it here because i didn’t grow up on these games.
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the programmer who added rollback to GGAC+R is working on rollback implementation for USF4
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yeah, I’m pretty excited about that. +R’s rollback is probably the best I’ve played
Rashid trailer, comes out July 24
I get stressed out watching this imagining what he’s like to fight against!
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Evo DLC cutoff is typically 2 weeks, right? I wonder if they’ll make an exception and legalize him for the tourney?
His moveset:
Rashid storms onto the scene with new and classic moves characterized by parkour and lightning quick movements, including:
Arabian Cyclone – A new special move that performs a spinning kick and conjures up a whirlwind; can be used as a standalone blow, or transitioned into Rolling Assault or Wing Stroke.
Arabian Skyhigh – A new double jump move that keeps opponents guessing on where Rashid will land from the air.
Super Rashid Kick – Level 1 Super Art that unloads a devastating kick while soaring forward and up through the air.
Ysaar – Previously Rashid’s V-Trigger move in Street Fighter V, this Level 2 Super Art summons a slow-moving whirlwind projectile that can be used to pressure opponents.
Altair – Rashid’s Level 3 Super Art calls forth a tempest that lifts opponents before he rains down on them with a monsoon of powerful blows.
A lot of talk about him here from the director:
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i’m very confident i’m meant to be in silver 4. every single person i played tonight that was in silver 5 destroyed me, and my silver 4 matches take all my concentration.
is there a convenient way to share replays? there’s a code per replay but it looks annoying to copy, both for me and the person that wants to watch it. i guess i’ll just upload a video of a couple sets. when i watch them i see a bunch of things i’m doing wrong or dropping, but i don’t know what to focus on first to improve. i still have very little intuition for fighting games. i feel like i’m flailing about in most situations.
in the replay i look really goofy and like i’m not doing much, but it’s basically taking all my brain power to play at that level. i do think i’m too focused on protecting against projectiles and jump-ins and drive impacts but the moment i think about anything else i get blown up by them so idk. if i’m stressed it feels like there’s a 50% chance i botch a motion.
i think i’m not doing enough on their wakeup. i noticed in the video i have a habit to drive impact their wakeup sometimes and that seems bad. also in a match i can NEVER remember that none of her crouching kicks are special cancellable. i need to just spend like 10 minutes in training mode pressing 2LK 2LP into a special to sear it into my brain. i also basically never expect invincible OD reversal when they’re getting up; i need to remember to block more against characters that have one. literally no one did it against me until like silver 2. i probably should block more on their wakeup in general. shimmy back and then threaten grab if they do nothing or press a button.
edit: alright the video uploaded; should be in HD in like an hour from when i posted this.
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Sounds like you’ve already thought this through and developed a list of things to practice, which means you’re already off to a good start.
To avoid the conscious or unconscious pressure of a ranked match, have you tried playing casual matches? It still matches you up with people of similar rank, you just won’t have to worry about being graded on your performance. It’s a great method to get live matches against other people while having the freedom to use it to practice specific things. You won’t be playing “optimally” and you won’t even be playing to win, but that won’t be the point- you just want to pick one thing and focus on practicing it in a real match. Doing that one thing right will be your victory condition for the night, not winning rounds.
For wakeup options, try watching some videos or replays of Manon matches and eye what they are doing on wake-up to give you an idea of what you should be doing instead, and just spend some time emulating that in casual matches. See when those strategies work for you and when they don’t. Maybe try practicing your meaty timing on wakeup, which can also double practice for that 2LK 2LP special combo.
Choose a single problem, try to find a single solution via training mode or videos, and then spend a night only practicing that one thing. Just spend one night trying to punish the enemy with 2LP +2LK + special every time, even if it’s not the optimal punish. You’ll develop the muscle memory and you’ll also slowly develop your feeling for situations where it is and it isn’t working well, which will help you feel when to use it in a real match.
Once you feel you’re reliably doing the thing you set out to practice, starting trying to playing the casual matches somewhat “for real” and try to incorporate those feelings and muscle memory of what you learned while actually playing. It’ll be difficult because now you’ll be thinking of a lot more things at once, but this will be practice to incorporate your new strategy/skill into a regular gameflow.
I suspect this is all stuff you already knew, so this is just to push you to actually do it!
From skimming your video, one thing that’s immediately noticeable is that you could try practicing approaching without jumping. I think this is a pretty common strategy most people learn - jumping lets you avoid being hit by grounded pokes if you were to try to walk forward- and its a sign that you’ve actually consciously or unconsciously done some strategic thinking and figured out that jumping gives you a lot of benefits.
But better players will start scoping out your jumps and anti-air you regularly. Additionally, Manon doesn’t really have much of an aerial tool kit, so you’re not going to be able to apply any mid-air strategy against someone with a reliable anti-air.
So that’s another thing to practice- getting over that habit. Spend some time practicing walking forward and blocking to get over that fear. Figure out what you can actually do to hit someone while on the ground from a distance. Look up some matches and see what other Manon’s do to approach on the ground:
- what moves are they threatening space with as they walk forward? If they hit with those attacks, how do they capitalize on it? Do those create combos? or let the Manon move forward more? Or do they just leave it at that single hit and keep playing the neutral game?
- what moves do they use to make the final offensive push into the opponent’s face? Are they looking to create a combo from those moves or just trying to get close? What are they doing immediately after having the opportunity of getting in close?
- what distance do they like to keep from the opponent before making that offensive push?
- What offensive options did they try that failed or were punished by their opponents?
That should give you some ideas to practice in casual matches. Not saying jumping is never the answer, but generally grounded approaches will be safer unless you’ve developed an understanding of what your opponent likes to do in neutral. Then you can more safely purposely space or time your jump to get over whatever button they’re pressing a lot.
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thanks! i think i’m realizing i’m not very confident in my analysis because i have an overarching insecure feeling that i’m missing something, but that feeling isn’t accurate.
agree with the jumps – i’m definitely doing them out of fear. thanks for the advice & tips!
What is a shimmy
That’s when you move forward as for a throw, but when you reach throw range, you back up and punish their attempted throw tech.
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I have worked my way up through ranked with Manon from Iron to Gold 3/4 rn and I would say its hard for me to distinguish what I am doing that you are not. I can certainly see you doing things that I am not & should be.
I feel like the most difficult thing for me atm is trying to keep in mind the right spacing to threaten someone crouch-blocking with Manon’s risky/slow overheads. Qcb (214) hk is easy enough to react to & punish once they expect it and the (4)medium kick x2 that goes up and down requires you to be so close it reads to me as a very risky thing to use as an approach tool. Jumps work sometimes but are caught onto pretty quick. I think I can get away with DI sometimes especially if its like ken or someone who clearly wants to press button so bad but it doesn’t take too long for them to catch on & react.
I suppose(?) this is when it makes the most sense to cancel like a mp into a drive rush to close the distance and then use the mk overhead or threaten hp → throw or just throw, but in practice I usually lose patience and really have trouble doing the cancel DR motion so instead I hope the gimmick move works.
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I’ll preface this by saying I don’t play manon and I’m out of town so I don’t even have access to the game. I’ll further add that I’m not very good at fighting games, but I do have a lot of experience.
you’re definitely leaving a lot of damage on the table. as you pointed out, there are many many times in these matches you could’ve hit 2lk 2lp upkicks but didn’t have the muscle memory or recognition and just kept hitting 2lk. fixing that alone would’ve won you almost every one of these rounds. even if you don’t confirm it, that string is pretty safe, I believe? if you confirm you can meter dump with ex upkicks into 214mk for pretty strong corner carry.
similarly, you hit a lot of jump ins and mostly just swept afterwards. I don’t know what’s optimal for manon there, but something like 4hp drc 2mp 4hp hitgrab gives you good damage and a medal
you’re not spending much drive or super meter, so it’s worth trying to see where you can dump that stuff for damage. any jump in is one spot, as I mentioned. you can add a level 3 super to that combo if you have it. in general it is usually a pretty good idea to play degenerate with drive meter in this game in neutral. manon is not a character that is going to get much value out of raw drive rush (one of her biggest weaknesses), but you can buffer a cancel out of any cancelable move you’re throwing out in neutral. you hit a lot of 5lk in these matches. you can just mash dash every time you press that button. if it connects, you’re in. if it hits, I’m sure you get 2mp 4hp hitgrab; if it’s blocked, oh well, you’re still a grappler in the opponent’s face with plus frames! you can raw command grab, normal grab, 5mp into command grab – almost anything you want. it’s not always gonna work out, but you’re buying yourself favorable guessing scenarios. you can do this off of a lot of different buttons.
I think you’re also gambling with specials in neutral too often. they’re not bad for this, but you don’t threaten the opponent too much with a gameplan like that. manon has a lot of pretty good neutral buttons. 5hk has huge range, it’s relatively quick, and it’s very difficult to punish. you can harass with that to interrupt the opponent’s game plan. 5mk is a special cancelable low. 5hp is longer range than it looks and has built in pressure. you get to threaten at different ranges with these moves.
as far as being overwhelmed trying to defend against jumps/DI/projectiles, it’s important to remember that you don’t have to defend against all of them all the time. if you’re far away, the opponent can’t DI you; if you’re right in their face, they can’t throw a projectile. if someone is a little jump happy, back up and give them the space to fuck themselves up. sometimes you just have to ignore certain things. if it’s the third set against someone and they haven’t been DIing you, maybe it’s time to more or less ignore DI. if you’ve been getting owned by DI of late, maybe it’s time to just ignore jump ins for now and focus on that. over time you learn what’s more of a threat when. you’re gonna get smoked by things, sometimes you just have to let that happen so you can develop in other ways.
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