Kirby opinion

Kirby and the Amazing Mirror was the first Kirby game I played. To this day certain aspects of its level design and graphics pop into my head unbidden to tell me “things should look more like this”. I loved the idea of finding powers in enemies and the framework, with themed worlds all linked together into one open thing. It’s a keyring platformer, like Metroid. (see the What do we call metroidvanias thread.) The idea is basically Metroid but instead of PERMANENT upgrades, your upgrades are TEMPORARY. Your skill in avoiding hits changes how likely it is that they’ll be taken away. And it has a hub world. A big, circular hub world, like in Yume Nikki, but starting off empty, and pressing huge satisfying switches bigger than Kirby’s body to activate the doors to each themed stage arranged in clock fashion.

I don’t think there’s a lot of sequence breaking you can do but it adds so, so much to the game to have a constantly branching path; so much so the actual doorways between rooms are a tracked collectable. (no reward for getting all of them i think but i’m pretty sure i eventually got stuck on 99%. so i wouldn’t know!) Every single place you go could have some hidden world access point; until you learn the rules of every power in the game, there could still be hidden doors. But you won’t be confused about where to go because there’s always something clearly pushing you ahead. (Even some interesting stuff like doors that take you only one way, so you have to risk your existing progress and maybe abandon whatever task you had in mind to enter them.) That’s classic good game design.

Then I found out it was sorta the black sheep of the series and every single other Kirby game is overwhelmingly linear. Even the ones after it!

Can I just make a scene, here, about this meager thing for a moment? That’s so FUCKING STUPID it BLOWS MY MIND. I don’t even understand how they came up with Kirby in the first place without coming up with Amazing Mirror. Metroid was out for a cold 7 years; no excuse. The other Kirbys were just done wrong. Like they don’t even get what’s cool about their game. “Yeah, I GUESS there could be more places for our flexible, flying, ability-changing blob to go than the empty line, straight ahead of you. Buuuut… like… branching might require players to replay parts of a level. I don’t want to make a level that’s interesting enough to go through more than once.”

No, this is how they wanted to make levels. Cute, guys!

That said, I haven’t tried THAT hard to delve into other Kirby games. I’m not sure if I could emotionally handle the fallout of being disappointed again. I played the GBA remake of Kirby’s Adventure and a certain powerup (the spike one) was so astonishingly cool it retroactively worsened my experience of the other games that it’s nowhere to be seen! It seems like the big trick of the series is to come up with good ideas once and then drop them.

Take Kirby 64. The only other Kirby game I really enjoyed and finished was Kirby 64, because (among other things, like looking nice) it has the power combos. Again, awesome brainstorm. Everyone who talks about this game talks about how cool they are. (Just like they talk about how cool it is that you can only fly for a limited time before Kirby starts huffing and puffing like an old man and falls to his death! Oh, what, that wasn’t a super popular improvement that they definitely stuck with?)

Combining powers is fucking awesome. You find one new power, it means a multiplicative explosion of discovery. The part I like the most is that tons of powers aren’t useful as keycards or even good for keeping you alive - the designers just really devoted themselves to making a reasonable combo for every single elemental power. You don’t know what you’re gonna get but you know it will have some sort of amusing logic behind it.

There’s so much you could do with this criminally under-utilized mechanic. Sure would be nice to see that developed, instead of atrophying away into nothing. Yeah, a logical progression instead of making their gimmick that they come up with a whole new aesthetic for every Kirby game, like they’re doing now. Are they gonna return to this well of unanimous success? Ever?

N O P E

Yeah, failed. Failed like a poorly inspected bridge!

Amazing Mirror was one of my favorite games as a kid; it’s one of the few games I can remember getting and putting into my GBA SP and playing on my old chair at my old house, talking to my mom about how much I liked it. You know what? FUCK Kirby! FUCK THE WHOLE KIRBY SERIES. The only reason anyone has remembered this wretch for 15 years is because he’s in Smash. Nintendo, give up whatever pathetic bullshit you’re on now, team him up with Samus, put them both in a Metroid Kirby game. JUST MAKE A METROID KIRBY. Kirby of the STARS, right? Space bounty hunter? Kirby of the ZEBES? Just spitballing here.

Maybe Kirby is the bit of Chozo-Metroid DNA that got sucked out of Samus after Fusion, and she hangs out with him afterward because he reminds her of the baby metroid she saved. Kirby would flutter around after her and you’d control them both and switch between them like in Donkey Kong Country or Lost Vikings or Superstar Saga. And at the end of the game they’d say goodbye and he flies off to go crash into Pop Star. Because he’s so inspired by Samus he wants to go be a space bounty hunter too.

You would have Dedede and Kraid all bickering over food and not getting along, and you’d be all “Hey! This doesn’t seem quite right! Where’s the real bad guys?” and then DARK MATTER would come outta nowhere and so would MOTHER BRAIN but in her creepy humanoid form from Super, and they’d mashup into DARK BRAIN and they’d be all WAAARRRGH and the Space Pirates would be like YEERRRRRRR and the painter girl would fly Samus’s ship down to the surface and hop out, and you find a boss room with the Adam the computer man from Fusion and he’s just totally ancient and fucked up, and Samus has to kill him all “What a shame” and Kirby can suck up his corpse and go GUBBA GUBBA !! and open up security hatches and there could be a bit where you find weird mushrooms in a cave and there’s a frog jumping around, and it would be a funny in-house reference like, get it, that’s Toad.

Ridley would inexplicably not show up at all. In his place is Yoshi. But Samus would still have developed a phobia of him and passes out whenever she sees him, so during that battle a fearful Kirby has to constantly eat his big sister figure and spit her out of the way of attacks.

EASY win for Nintendo, $800,000,000. Sony, Microsoft defeated. YOU’RE WELCOME.

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PS. Don’t worry, I gave thought to the other side of the discussion. I even looked up what people were saying about Amazing Mirror to find out what the most common criticism is.

It seems like most people really liked it, but the people that didn’t could all agree on what their issues were: Too confusing. They didn’t know where to go; they’d stop for a while and forget how to progress, or they’d find themselves wandering in circles and give up.

I know for a fact Nintendo sees Kirby as their Baby’s First Game series; they straight up cannot let themselves make it come across as something with depth. So if a common reaction to the game was “wtf do i do”, I can see why they dialed it back and looked for different directions.

That doesn’t actually make any of my points wrong. Those people who had trouble should just get better brains; then we’d all be on the same page. I sure wasn’t confused by that game. I knew exactly what to do. (The sentence about the 99% completion floats back into vision) Yep. Too easy, really. should’ve been harder.

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The more linear Kirby’s are really good though! The the earlier games may not have big branching paths throughout the entire game world, but they are incredibly reactive.

Different parts of the environment react in different ways to your power ups. Learning how to mess with the world in weird ways is a lot of fun. Kirby has a big health bar, but that means the actual punishment for damage is less death, and more that you lose an ability. Since a lot of alternate routes are locked off if you don’t have a particular power, this does require you to shepherd abilities through levels.

Plus Amazing Mirror sounds like it owes a lot The the very good, very experimental, Kirby Superstar. It had a linear metroidvania riff contained within it called The Great Cave Offensice with a bunch of optional areas and a list of treasures to find. In a later segment, Milky Way Wishes, you get the ability to PERMANENTLY collect abilities hidden throughout the levels in a similar fashion.

While a more Metroid-like Kirby sounds great, Kirby’s fun power-up sandbox style has always been deeper than it seems at first.

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It sounds like you haven’t played Amazing Mirror. You should. It has all the things you’re talking about in spades, with more interestingly linked up levels.

I don’t actually talk real shit on Kirby. All of my problems with the series are that if you like the more experimental entries, every single other one will be a step down. And my even bigger problem is they’re never going to make one that puts all the good Kirby ideas in one box, because of Nintendo’s insistence (see above) that they’ll never let Kirby just have a mature game. I don’t mean gritty, either, I mean full-fledged “let’s give Kirby lovers something impressive to chew on” instead of half-baked “I guess kids will buy it if they’re… party balloons this time, and we only need to make like four powers, right?”

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The thing where they think the real game isn’t fun enough, so they put in minigames with totally different playstyles? That’s never appealed to me, either.

Amazing Mirror is definitely the best Kirby game, and the series really lost out when it dropped that Keyring dimension that started in Superstar and got fleshed out in Mirror.

It’s true that Kirby is tuned for kids and those who are less practiced with action games, but I actually see that as a strength. You can pick up Kirby Superstar and play co-op with almost anyone, no matter what their prior experience or skill level is. There’s no pressure on player 2; when they die you can just remake them instantly. It’s like having Tails in Sonic 2, except player 2 has a robust, fully-fledged character that can make a meaningful difference in the game.

Amazing Mirror is interesting in how it balances Kirby’s essential baby-tude. While it does ask more of the player, it still works very well for any skill level. An adult can chew on its labyrinthine structure and its nuanced navigation puzzles, while a little kid can have a great time just endlessly wandering the world.

I played Amazing Mirror back in the day and I had a great time until I eventually reached the point where I’d seen so much of the game that I lost the thread of where I had and hadn’t been. I was reduced to pacing about this incredibly huge world, with only the vaguest sense of where I was and where I needed to go. It didn’t help that I have horrible navigation skills, even in games. Still, it’s an excellent tweak on the Kirby formula and they really should have stuck with it.

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I played Planet Robobot for 3DS recently and I was completely charmed by its great aesthetic, inventive enemy designs, and visually detailed levels. But I still dropped it out of sheer boredom about 1/3rd into the game. It just didn’t DO enough. There wasn’t anything for my brain to chew on.

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Kirbware has all too often been mechanics in search of challenging level design, yerp

I’m sort of amazed the romhack scene hasn’t explored that yet (afaik), Kaizo Kirby would probably own??

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Puresabe, author of Rockman Minus Infinity, has a Kirby’s Adventure hack somewhere out there.

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For those interested, here’s the Waybacked download link for Puresabe Kirby. It’s listed as incomplete and I cba to test it, so you should. Post screenshots!

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I was just looking for an appropriate place to post this Kirby art that I found, and now this thread has made me want to try Amazing Mirror. The only Kirby games I have played are the NES one, Dream Land 3, and a few levels of the yarn one.

(source)

Every time I think about Kirby’s Dream Land 3, I have to listen to this song:

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Canvas Curse is great if you have a way to play it

So I had this weird experience when I was playing the Kirby Forgotten Lands demo. I just felt like I was walking from one button prompt to the next. Like the whole thing was a kind of hike to an insibile or visible button prompt. Like I wasn’t really playing a game but just moving through it at my own pace. Every secret so well marked you just kind of went to them.

I don’t think the heights of kirby (Super Star, and Dream Land 3) were reached in 3D, with an easy game that’s almost a mirage, to a kind of environment puzzle, or some kind of secret found in each level. To me that’s what separated Kirby level design from Donkey Kong and Mario.

I’d be curious if anyone finds something more, as this was just the demo.

Also, jeebus Nintendo. Give me access to all the kirby games. Why are so many of these so hard to find a way to play?

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So it’s an open world game.

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Not really the feeling I get from most open world games personally.

what

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i mean, don’t you know that

In the Guest Star ??? Star Allies Go! sub-game, a butterfly plays an important role. After Galacta Knight emerges from a dimensional rift, a butterfly flutters down from the sky and lands on his lance. The butterfly then absorbs Galacta Knight’s power, seemingly disintegrating him in the process, and transforms into Morpho Knight, serving as the final boss of the sub-game. According to Morpho Knight’s Japanese pause descriptions, this particular butterfly is a “butterfly of paradise” that has the ability to cross dimensions, and has arrived in the present time from another dimension after something has “ceased to be.” The butterfly is also heavily implied to be a divine being of judgement.

?

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Kirby and the Butterfly Bitch of Chaos are here to EAT UR TOMATOES and beat up a regal penguin!

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Someone pls change my title to Butterfly B*tch of Chaos

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I really enjoyed this video about the composition style of classic Kirby music:

Got me really interested in Nikolai Kapustin!

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