I will make a Pokemon of you 2.0 [Welcome to the Sun/Moon Meta: Video Warriors]

King of Posters
162

there is a pokemon in the first 151 that is literally a fucking mime.

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I’ve always been unable to relate to accusations that new Pokemon are lazily designed. People usually cite, “That one’s just an ice cream cone!” or “That one’s just a heap of garbage!”

But I guess I never thought any Pokemon designs were particularly great. I mean, they have a definite style, and now that I’m older I respect how they’re able to be kid friendly and vaguely timeless without seemingly attempting to be “cool” (see Digimon for a counter example). But it’s not like they were ever particularly clever, and only a few of them really captured my imagination.

On the other hand, the garbage 'Mon lineage is actually cleverly anthropomorphized. And I think Hoopa-Unbound is pretty damn cool looking. The anime pikachu is brilliantly adorable, but in the actual game it’s that hunched, dead-eyed piggybank.

The pokemon I tend to like the least are the legendaries. They take these Megazordy qualities that come off as both kiddie and tacky.

I actually love the designs in Youkai Watch. There’s more of a sense of cleverness there that I find really appealing.

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164

this may be specifically prompted by bogleech spending a year just reviewing them all, but I assert otherwise- pokemon holds some… if not clever, at least creative results with minimal conclusions:

  • little craboid devoured by seperate unemotive mushroom
  • mouthless amphibians with hypnotizing spiral intestines pressing against its stomach
  • psychic fake-egg seeds that grow into a walking face-fruit tree
  • pink hippoling grown wise through symbiosis with a gnawing shell crown
  • alien jewel-eyed starfish, twins stuck together spinning
  • land-stalking trilobite half-petrified from its animate fossil origins
  • upright sheared electric sheep with luxirious jewel-filled hair
  • walking stone tree somewhat terrible at its disguise
  • ghost born between nymph and adult, haunting a floating shed insect shell
  • flying banana tree dinosaur
  • metallic trash bagworm eternally nested in its cloak
  • ghost hot air balloon carrying children to the underworld
  • the constant escape of the yeti through the guise of snow-draped pine trees
  • dreamwalker incense-burning pig
  • claw-like barnacles poking out of rocks forming a mecha
  • waddling upside-down sinister psychic squid
  • imperial serpent camouflaged as drifting poisonous algae

decent non-generic legendaries also include the explosive thunder burst of a hummingbird and the impending skeletal moon bat.

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165

Well, we’ll never have to argue over which pokemon is the most inappropriate.

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166

The new legendaries are two of my favorite designs, particularly the moon bat; though I’m pretty partial to suicune as well.

In general, my favorites are always Dark 'mon, which I guess has something to do with what I think is cool.

167

I will accept the epithet Bulky Physical Sweeper.

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Weeeeeell…you’re more like a Bulky Mid-Game Wallbreaker or maybe a pseudo-sweeper.

You could sweep, but you’re not as reliable as Ronk or Persona.

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OG fatpikachu 4ever

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170

For anyone interested in playing the games by anime canon, there’s actually an item that seems to be based around making a pikachu as viable as Ash’s is in the show.

It’s called Light Ball, and it doubles pIkachu’s (and only pikachu’s) Attack and Special Attack stats. Given pikachu’s decent Speed stat, that almost makes it usable as a sweeper.

But–y’know–it’s 110 base Attack isn’t all that great, and 90 base speed isn’t enough to reliably get the first hit on any “fast” 'mon.

So, basically, if you wanted, you could beat the game with a Pikachu (Electric is still the best Type), but I wouldn’t bring it to a competition.

171

So, I don’t think I’ve said this explicitly, but my goal with Phase 2 of this thread is to slot everyone into really strong, competitive teams with minimal overlap.

So, while some posters are more OP than others, I’m trying not to lean on any poster too much and my dream goal here is to make completely unique teams with no overlap.

Thing is… Damn, some of you just rock.

Basically, I’m having trouble getting any team to match the synergy of that team I had an 8-game sweep with–and it’s always really tempting to reuse, like, half that team and just slot in some new 'mon.

A big part of this is that @Ronk, @drobe, and @Rudie form such a perfect core.

In Pokemon, a “core” is a grouping of pokemon (usually three) that play off each other so well that they create a kind of unstoppable momentum. People usually think of this in terms of an elemental core. Fire, Water, and Grass form a core, not because they have perfect type resistance together (the team is still overall weak to Flying, Poison, and Rock) but because overall their resistances and attack strengths are complimentary. You can usuallymake a core by just grabbing Rock, Paper, and Scissors, though some of these combinations work better than others.

http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen6/xy-animated/184.gif

Just looking at the trio of Ronk, drobe, and Rudie on paper, I could definitely predict that they’d work well together, but just how well is a bit of a surprise. It’s mostly the typing: Ronk’s Water side takes out Fire 'mon that could kill drobe, Rudie strongly resists the Grass that could take down Ronk, whereas drobe resists anything that could kill either of them. drobe is super-weak to ground, but Ronk resists it, and Rudie is completely immune to it. If any Fairies gun for Rudie, drobe can scare them away. And if any Steel or Poison types descend on Ronk, drobe is a guaranteed OHKO (with no escape thanks to his Steel trapping ability Magnet Pull) to the Steel and immune to the poison.

I also want to point out what an awesome starter @boojiboy7 has turned out to be. Booj, it just so happens that you are guaranteed to OHKO a bunch of 'mon that a) show up often and b) are often used as starters. And because you’re not a particularly popular 'mon, they never see it coming. They think I’m going to set up a Stealth Rocks hazard, and then–BOOM–I just outright killed their first 'mon. Then come the Stealth Rocks. Usually an OHKO is a question of guessing the enemies defenses, but what you hit, you hit incredibly well–and that kind of reliability is really addicting.

So yeah: I’m going to try to keep the teams varied and everyone will get a chance to shine, but I thought it was worth pointing out the beautiful friendship between these three love birds–especially because I’m about to post a bunch of examples of them dominating.

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I mean I always adored Mareep for playing off the whole “static electricity” thing, I think the later evolutions sorta ruin it a bit.

My absolute favorite pokemon, tho

173

Actually, before I post these battles, I should also introduce you guys to this alternate build of @Kilroy I’ve cooked up.

My original build of Kilroy was as a Sweeper, which is a great role for her. But I recently came up with a…well, I think it might actually be a new style of pokemon build.

I call it a “Percentage Wall Breaker.”

The point of a Wall Breaker in pokemon is that…there are Walls, and…ya gotta break 'em. A Wall pokemon, mid-battle, can ruin your day if you have nothing that can damage it significantly. There are basically two types of Wall Breakers:

  • Really strong pokemon with good type coverage (or any pokemon that can buff into this same status)
  • Status effect pokemon that can imbue the Wall with a reliable death sentence

The first option is all well and good, but–ultimately–it’s difficult to pack pokemon that are super-strong against every Wall in the game. I like the reliability of the second option, but if the opponent can heal status effects you get stuck playing footsie.

Enter the third type: The Percentage Wall Breaker.

What if you take Super Fang, which always takes 50% of the enemie’s HP and combine it with Seismic Toss or Nightshade, which always take 100HP? Well, you’ll be completely certain that no matter how Wall-y your opponent, you will be able to kill it in 3 turns (well, 4 turns if they are in the highest tier of HP, plus one turn for every time they heal).

Now, there are pokemon who are immune to all of three of these moves (Ghosts are immune to Super Fang and Seismic Toss, which are Normal-type, and Normal-type are immune to Night Shade, which is Ghost), but there really aren’t any Ghost Walls, anyway. You could also argue that a 3HKO is fairly slow, but if you’re mucking with a true Wall, there’s likely no better option than a 3HKO; and in this case it is all-but guaranteed by simple math with broader versatility than any other move set can offer.

Now, these moves are rare enough that only a few pokemon actually have both moves as well as the bulk required to not mind taking three hits. Of that handful, only Mew can heal HP (and status effects as well).

Now, just to add another wrinkle, I’ve become pretty enamored with the way-underrated move Infestation, as of late. It’s a Bug move that does a measley 20 base damage but also traps the opponent in the ring for 4-5 turns, sapping 1/8th of their max HP each turn. So, basically, if you use Superfang and Infestation (which nothing is immune to) together, you are once again promised a 3HKO (delayed by any healing). In this case there’s no chance of a high HP 'mon dragging it out to a 4th turn (without healing), because–y’know–4/8 + 1/8 + 2/8 +1/8 will always equal 100%. Plus, this time the enemy cannot escape.

Kilroy (alt) (Mew) @ Leftovers  
Ability: Synchronize  
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 SpD  
Careful Nature  
- Super Fang  
- Infestation  
- Heal Bell  
- Soft-Boiled

Again, the attraction here is the reliability. Every other 'mon on your team should be capable of killing plenty of opponents in one or two hits. But an Infestation Percentage Wallbreaker jumps in to take care of the 'mon you didn’t prepare for. It’s a fail safe that challenges the opponent with moves that they–for the most part–can’t plan against.

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174

So yeah, last night I got lazy and just wanted to win repeatedly, so I thought I’d throw @Persona onto the end of RDR Core + Booj (haven’t thought of a clever name for that team yet) as a super-reliable Sweeper.

Since the team’s last sweep, I noticed that our biggest weakness was a lack of sneakiness. The team has a lot of devastating power, but we were lacking a tricky status effect 'mon to get us out of jams. allmonsters is meant to be out go-to in this capacity, and he works well (did some testing recently). But I wanted to test this alt build of Kilroy that I’ve pretty proud of.

Overall, the team proved quite effective. Hard to say if it’s a marked improvement over the previous version. I felt safer having Kilroy around as a failsafe, but we only got through 5 battles before a loss, as opposed to–like–8. On the other hand, I started the night higher in the matchmaking ladder than the previous night and ended higher, the devastating momentum of the team in each battl led to almost all rage quits:

The problem here was that we didn’t have a great answer for Excadrill or Rotom-Wash (which is only weak to Grass). Excadrill is Steel/Ground, so we could have trapped it with drobe. However, it was faster than drobe and could OHKO him with Earthquake. Same for booji. Rudie could have used Fire Punch, but didn’t get the chance.

On top of that, Kilroy (alt) had her Leftovers swapped for Choice Specs, which limited her to whichever move she used first, severely limiting her ability to handle these two 'mon that resisted everyone else on the team.

But my biggest error was bringing out Persona too early. I figured Excadrill might take down half the team anyway, and Persona could just set up now for an awesome sweep. Unfortunately, I underestimated excadrill’s super-high attack stat. I would have been better off letting everyone but Persona die. As long as I got a free set up turn with Persona, we would have been fine. But with both our fail safes hobbled, facing two powerful 'mon with no easy answer, we ended up in bad shape.

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My life lesson from this thread is that I just need to go hard right out the gate. This is some good Andrew WK party tip.

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Here are a few quick battles with a team I’m working on, with @Schroeder as the sweeper. Schroeder, I originally thought I’d keep you as a non-mega, since we had some megas in the roster already; and on each team There Can Only Be One. But we’re going to need to have a ton of teams to get everyone in there anyway, and other than Ronnoc, you’re the only 'mon we have that’s fast enough to be a physical sweeper.

As far as typing, you’re pretty solid, with only three weaknesses: Fair, Flying, and Ghost. The only problem there is that there are some pretty common and pretty threatening Fairies in the OU meta.

So, since you’re our Win Condition, I tapped Poison 'mon @Mikey and The King to protect you. The King, since your original post, I’ve seen the light of the standard Nidoking build. Though you’re slightly stronger as a Physical Attacker, your ability Sheer Force makes you a devastating OHKO machine with Special Attacks. Sheer Force gives a 30% bonus to attacks with status effects attached, and you happen to have a ton of status effect moves with near perfect type coverage. Add another 30% boost with Life Orb, and you OHKO pretty much anything you attack. The only issue is your frail defenses which limit your reign.

@all_monsters, your revised build as a defensive out-and-out status 'mon is proving quite effective. You’re able to really effectively cripple any 'mon that we don’t have an answer to, and your decent bulk and Sitrus Berry allow you to hang in there and even work as a Pivot (taking a hit to change the pace of battle).

Ronk is included as a needed response to Fire and Dark 'mon (specifically Sableye and Talonflame, two 'mon that can take down the whole team if not checked), and DAISy is our Pivot/Wall with much needed Electric and Ice attacks.

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On to the battles:

When I built this team, I knew I’d be opening with The King about 90% of the time. Here’s why: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-375592052

A great team effort, but I think @all_monsters in particular gets to shine. Overall, everyone did their job exactly: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-375592315

A close one! Looks like we need to pack and answer to jirachi: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-375594516

Overall, I thought the team’s performance was decent. We’re about mid-tier in the matchmaking ladder for these bouts, so these are good players who know what they’re doing and can read ahead. I want to tinker a bit more, because I really think we have something here.

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178

It’s been a long work week, and I haven’t been getting much sleep.

I just want to play pokemon tonight :(

We’ll see if I’m still up to it when I get home in an hour.

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@stylo, your vidya game pedigreee of fightin’ and farmin’ makes you a natural Breloom–the slap-happy plant ‘mon with a lot of room to grow.

SBPKMN - tiburon.png962×680 197 KB

At first glance, Breloom might not seem all that impressive. Sure it’s 130 base Attack makes it a physically offensive beast, but its mediocre-to-poor defensive stats and Speed make it a serious sitting duck. On top of that, its types are completely non-complementary–meaning it has double the resistances and double the offenses, but also double the weaknesses, including a nasty double-weakness to Flying types. In a meta in which the the least vincible usually carry the day, you’re looking like a glass cannon with a long fuse in a China shop, with a bull, and the bull’s mad (metaphor over).

So, you’ve got a lot going against you at first glance, and many might write you off right there. But woe unto those who count you out before the count is down. A longer look at your moveset reveals an almost daunting amount of potential. Where you fall short in natural gifts, you make up for with acquired expertise. The only question is–which why do you go?

Your most obvious asset is the move Spore–the only move in the game that is 100% guaranteed to put any non-immune ‘mon to sleep. That’s huge. Sleep completely immobilizes the opponent for up to 3 turns, requiring another ‘mon to heal the sleepy Pete, or simply a waiting period. While Smogon rules limit Sleep so that it can only effect one ‘mon at a time, it still essentially gives the user the ability to temporarily remove a competitor from the match and acts as a serious threat.

Spore pairs well with Breloom’s ability Poison Heal, which restores 1/8th of the user’s HP at the end of each turn, provided that they’re poisoned. This makes you immune to poison and heals you by the greatest per-turn factor in the game.

But wait, this isn’t Breloom’s only top-tier ability. Technician is a lovely ability that boosts any move with a base power below 60, by multiplying its attack by 1.5. This means that a weak, always-goes-first STAB move like Mach Punch now has a base power of 60 (rather than a measly 40), along with the 50% same-type bonus. Perhaps more interesting, the Grass STAB Bullet Seed, which attacks 2-5 times with a BP of 25, now has a BP of 38 per hit. That means its attack power ranges from 76 to 190–at its max becoming the strongest move in the game ( + STAB).

But don’t forget that as a Grass ‘mon, you also have the standard moves of Leech Seed, which saps 1/16th of the enemy’s health, and Synthesis, which heals you by 50%. And as a Fighting type, you have Drain Punch, which does 75BP, and gives 50% of that to you.

So, we have quite a few solid options, here. Do you chip away at your enemy or heal yourself by those same increments. Can you somehow do both? Do you have enough slots to put them to sleep as well? Your options are intoxicating, but whatever you go with, you have to take into account your limitations. No matter how versatile you are, you’re still frail as hell–never forget it.

So what combination of traits most forwards your strengths while compensating for your weaknesses?

Well, we’ll take a little from Column A and then default mostly to Column C. We’re going to go for breloom’s dark horse niche as a Sub-Puncher.

A Sub-Punch build is based on combining the moves Focus Punch and Substitute. Focus Punch is a fighting move with a very high 150 base power and a 100% hit rate. What’s the catch? Well, it nearly always goes last, regardless of your Speed, and if you’re attacked before you use it, it fails. So, it’s pretty much useless. Unless–that is–you’re hidden behind a Substitute, the move that takes 25% of your HP and puts it in a doll that takes hits and status effects until it’s out of HP. With Sub-Punch, you get to a solid chance of OHKO’ing anything that isn’t Fighting resistant (Flying and Psychic)

However, the tactic is far from fool-proof. You have to be fast enough to get your Sub up, and if it’s immediately taken down the turn it’s put up, you’ve essentially just spent 25HP on a turn that you probably could have used to switch out. Also, you need to make sure that Focus Punch really packs a wallop and that you have some contingency for the many Flying ‘mon who can take it.

With this in mind, we’ll fully invest in your Attack and Speed stats, accepting the fact that if you take a direct hit, you won’t be in the game much longer. As for your other two move slots, I’m actually going to try two builds. Your main build is promising but less conventional, and the second is our fallback.

The less conventional build is based on offensive coverage. We give you Leftovers for the ambient heal factor, and go with Technician as your ability. It doesn’t help you at all with Focus Punch, but it gives a nice boost to Rock Tomb, a Rock-type move with a BP of 60, boosted to a respectable 90BP with Technician. Rock is strong against Flying types, and Rock Tomb will allow you to OHKO a ton of Fying types and 2HKO the rest. Now, they would OHKO you much more effectively, but with your Substitute up that won’t matter. With the final slot, we can lean extra unconventional with Mach Punch (usually attacks first, 60BP with Technician) which would give you the one-two punch to take down Flying threats like Tornadus-T, but we’re almost certainly better off just giving you Bullet Seed which allows you to OHKO any Water types foolish enough to face you.

tiburon (Breloom) @ Leftovers  
Ability: Technician  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Substitute  
- Focus Punch  
- Rock Tomb  
- Bullet Seed

Of course, the alternative is just to give up on ever taking down a Flying type, and leaning on your obvious strengths: equipping Spore to make sure you have the ability to bench at least one opponent ‘mon and Leech Seed to ensure that even against a go-nowhere match-up you can take the hit to your Sub and leave the opponent with a temporary status effect. Since this build uses Focus Punch as its only offensive move, you can choose Poison Heal instead of Technician, and you’ve got a steady stream of healing but are ultimately less effective against Water types and can no longer OHKO Azumarill. On the other hand, we can switch out Leech Seed for Protect, and use the turn of invulnerability that Protect provides to heal up a bit, allowing us to bring you back later with confidence.

tiburon (alt) (Breloom) @ Toxic Orb  
Ability: Poison Heal  
Shiny: Yes  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Substitute  
- Spore  
- Leech Seed  
- Focus Punch

The advantages to this build are obvious, but I don’t like the idea of running to from Flying types in a meta chock full of them. Instead, I’d like to see if we can trick them into taking heavy damages without ultimately doing anything to you.

So there you go: you may have eternal freshman anxiety, but many would kill for the options you have. Sneaky status ‘mon or straight-forward attacker–nobody’s sure what to make of you at first, and they don’t tend to prepare for the laid-back tactician you ultimately turn out to be. You spend the battle avoiding hits, but it’s hard to argue with a policy that keeps you coming back while others are all too happy to fall on their swords. You’ve got better things to do than throw yourself on a pyre.

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180

awesome!! v cool mon writeup, thanks :blush:

181

This thread is amazing. Please continue it.

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