Hey, thanks! That kind of support is really meaningful actually.
I feel like I take forever to write and posts these things, and so I always feel like I’m losing people’s interests, simply by taking too long to update.
It’s really gratifying to know that in aggregate it’s a fun or interesting read.
Nah man this is one of my favorite SB 2.0 threads
Yeah its really cool
There’s a ton of wealth of information and passion going into this. I will never jump into competitive pokemon battles but there’s something interesting about choices that go into making a cohesive team, as well as the effort into making uncommon types work in the current meta so that forum-goer builds can be A Thing. It’s great to read.
Hey guys! It’s been a minute, so I thought I’d do a quick update with some battles and team building notes.
I have three or four (actually, five, I guess) new SB Bonus Builds in mind, but I just haven’t gotten around to writing them up lately. So, in th meantime I’m still trying to come up with a second killer SB squadron using almost entirely different 'mon than our existing super team.
I see some strong potential in @schroeder’s escorts. There’s some strong synergy between DAISy (@creep), and @all_monsters, that I want to try to build off of. Basically, both are very defensive Pivots, since they’re Eviolite users (multiplies defenses by 1.5). DAISy is a strong Special Attacker with greate attack coverage and recovery move, who’s immune to Ghost, but weak only to Fighitng. all_monsters is an effective status 'mon who is weak only to Ghost and Dark but immune to Fighting, Normal, and Ground moves. Some of the more threatening Fighting type ‘mon often only pack Normal and Fighting type moves, and since DAISy is only weak to Fighting moves, it’s easy to predict when a fighting move is coming, switch into DAISy, and as long as they enemy doesn’t have the Super-Effective Dark move Knock Off, then all_monsters can cast Will-o-Wisp, which basically poisons the enemy and lowers their attack until they’re cured. Very few pokemon don’t fear Will-o-Wisp, all_monsters doesn’t mind taking a hit, and often the enemy will switch out once they lose a turn to all_monsters’ immunity. So it’s a very low-risk maneuver.
The major change I’ve made to the team is swapping out @Mikey. Sorry dude, but we were repeatedly getting our asses kicked by serperiors. I don’t generally have that problem, so it’s definitely a team thing. Y’all are slow as hell. Mikey is the designated speed demon, but he can only really get a serperior down to 50% before falling, and that’s not enough for someone to KO it with a priority move. So I was looking into common checks for serperior, and–lo and behold–it’s time for @SageGrimm to shine.
SageGrimm, I was actually concerned about finding a good niche for you. You’re definitely an Ice canon, and I tend to lean towards slow, bulky 'mon. Years of playing JRPG’s have made me at home with managing turn orders. So I prefer to take a hit and figure out an opening to heal later. Sweepy 'mon, such as yourself, are more about finding a space to enter the battle without taking a hit with enough enemies weak to you lined up that you can take out at least two 'mon before going down.
However, what I hadn’t considered is what an excellent threat you turned out to be. Pokemon is a game of momentum, and there are many ways to dictate the rhythm of a battle. The most obvious way is to be the last one to have killed a 'mon and to have no need to switch out. Essentially: type advantage. But there’s also something to be said of implied type advantage. Basically, as a 'mon who can OHKO anything weak to Ice with a near-guaranteed first hit, you become the elephant in the room, and loom large as a threat to the enemy for the whole battle, ready to take out any Dragon types or the likes of gliscor, landorus, and the aforementioned serperior.
Even better, The King (@Alyx) and DAISy also pack powerful Ice moves. So the opponent spends the battle trying to protect its Ice-vulnerable 'mon from you, but really half the team can OHKO them.
Anyway, it all sounds good, but as you’ll see, there’s still something missing. I’ll have to look over the losses again later. I don’t feel like I made any terrible errors, but I seem to be working really hard to keep up momentum and ultimately tend to run out of ideas in the higher ranks.
The Wins
There’s basically nothing on this team that can stop The King (@Alyx), though @SageGrimm needs to step in to get out us out of a hairy spot. NO THANKS TO @RONK!
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-392504572
The King is knocked out early and @creep and @SageGrimm pray to the RNG gods. I want to be clear that they forfeited because SageGrimm could have taken out the rest of their team without switching out. The anticlimactic thing about Showdown is you’re often deprived a well-earned sweep.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-392506610
Pretty close one! I’m happy with all my calls, save Turn 3, which I go for the puck where it is, rather than where it will be and ultimately sacked SageGrimm. The enemy’s Slaking has really high attack and a super-powerful move, but it can only attack every other turn, and @all_monsters is immune to it’s STAB move.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-392509617
The Losses
A very close one! In retrospect, my error was not bringing in SageGrimm against the Gardevoir that knocked out The King and Ronk. SageGrimm could have come in clean, outsped the Gardevoir, and would 100% have OHKO’ed it with Icicle Crash after those two rounds of burn damage.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-392513588
This one came down to fancy footwork. There was actually some deep strategizing at the end there that didn’t quite work out.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-392517105
The subtle misstep here was losing all_monsters before he had a chance to take out that ferrothorn. I was forced to bring out Sweeper schroeder early, lost him, and then didn’t have anything to handle the tyrogue. Though–ultimately–I’m not sure if I could have taken out the gardevoir anyway. Only The King is strong against it, and he was too slow to survive even one turn against it.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-392521386
So it looks like Mega-Gardevoir is a very real threat to this team. Hm. Weavile can get 86%-100% guaranteed damage in before getting sacked, but Mega-Gardevoir is almost always used as a win condition, meaning that Weavile has to make it to the end.
Hm. Well. I have a solution. But schroeder ain’t gonna like it…
…
^
No worries guys: everybody will be on a team. The trick is going to be making sure that every team has what it takes to go all the way.
In, if it ain’t too late…
Never too late! I’ll slot you in before most of the bonus 'Mon, but one might slip ahead of you, since some are half written.
So a little while ago, I concluded that there was no way for me to really make Tulpa’s 'mon work on a team without ultimately being a liability.
I offered Tulpa a choice: either stick with his current 'mon and not see action until I build a UU format team (which might never happen) or have me re-roll him. He made the right choice.
@Tulpa, your nearly impenetrable mental defenses and upsettingly large head peg you as a mega-sableye, the conniving, rock-eating, cave gremlin whose very existence seems to say, “Your ruleset is totally broken lol.”
While your previous form as a mega-absol proved unsuited for the horrors of the OU meta, mega-sableye functions almost as a new and improved update of your previous tulpa. Like absol, it’s a Dark ‘mon, however with the addition of a Ghost dual-typing, your many inconvenient weaknesses are whittled down to a single weakness to Fairies, along with three immunities (Normal, Fighting, and Psychic). Your once laudable Speed goes right in the toilet, but unusually balanced and high tier defensive stats more than make up for it, especially given that your default Ability is Prankster (your non-damaging moves always go first), a perfect guarantee that you will get to your mega form without taking a hit, at which point you gain your signature Magic Bounce ability, effectively preserving mega-absol’s niche but with much more security.
For absol, Magic Bounce was sort of a neat feature. It automatically bounces status effects and environmental hazards to the opponent when they’re used against you–something that comes in sort of handy for a pseudo-Sweeper like absol, but ultimately doesn’t complement its skill set. There’s no need to try to whittle down a glass cannon with poisoning,so rather than working defensively, absol’s Magic Bounce was only useful when deftly orchestrated–bringing in an already-mega-evolved absol when the enemy is trying to status an ally. However, absol’s myriad type weaknesses left it vulnerable to revenge kills and ultimately left it a liability. Worst of all, there was no way to heal mega-absol, outside of Wishes from a cleric.
Not only does mega-sableye have the awesome bulk to withstand hits and only one type weakness–it’s also packing Recover. That means that it can heal 50% of its health whenever it wants: before it goes mega it will always go first to heal, and after it goes mega it can never be statused to be whittled down. On top of that, it’s immune to any moves that deals flat HP damage, so there’s no way to bypass its defensive stats.
Really, the only reliable ways to kill a mega-sableye is with a powerful Fairy or a stat boosting ‘mon (or both). Of course, we have a way to work around that as well.
There are a number of viable and popular builds for mega-sableye and normal sableye. It’s popular to use Prankster to all-but-guarantee annoying status conditions for your enemies. But poking and jabbing isn’t really your style. No: you’re more one to fortify, satisfied in the confidence that, really, there’s nothing your opponent can do that will phase you.
Tulpa (Sableye-Mega) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpD
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Shadow Ball
- Recover
Recover is an obvious choice. We’ll pack the Ghost move Shadow Ball for neutral STAB damage against almost all types with Hidden Power Steel as a surprise for Normal and Fairy types who try to seize an opportunity. But your not-so-secret weapon lies in Calm Mind, the invaluable stat boost that I’ve been abusing in many of these builds. Calm Mind boosts your Special Attack and Special Defense by 50% with each usage, maxing out only when you’ve tripled those stats. Of course, this allows us to invest fully in your HP and your already high Defense stat, making you a total physical wall. Since your starting ability is Prankster, you will get to boost once for free no matter what–you will always go first, immediately bringing your SpDef equal to your Def, taking you to mega, and making you just all around nearly invincible to non-fairies (and no push-over offensively as well). This means that after one boost, there’s really no reason to not go for another and probably another. You can recover whatever damage you sustain, you can’t be statused, and only fairy moves even stand a chance of taking you down. Of course, after two boosts, your Hidden Power Steel should be more than enough to 2HKO them. Basically, the opponent has lost the moment you enter the field, with very few exceptions.
To answer your question, yes: you are incredibly broken for this format, and actually you were suspect tested not too long ago, and really should have been banned to Ubers. But you just didn’t get enough ban votes, which I can honestly only chalk up to stockholm syndrome or the fact that everybody likes using sableye. Playing Showdown has forced me to consider, “What is an ‘over powered’ character?” And, at least for Pokemon, I’ve decided that it’s a ‘mon that you are absolutely required to plan around in order to have a solid team. Basically, if there’s a ‘mon that forces you to pack a counter specifically for that ‘mon, because you know it can take out the rest of your team otherwise–that’s OP. You, Tulpa, are very much OP.
So there you go: it turns out that all you really needed to dominate the world was to shave a tight mohawk and really double down on your creepy shadow skulking. Food for thought.
Wow: it’s been nearly a month since I’ve updated.
Jesus.
Well, I’ve been pretty hung up on Notymenow’s 'mon–probably the most hung up I’ve been since Ronk. However, I think I’ve finally come to a decision. I just hope that Notymenow is into it. But! I think I want to do a bit of testing first. However, in the meantime, I had been working on a bonus 'mon for Aderack.
@azurelore, buddy, this has not been a good year for anybody, but I feel like I’ve seen it hit you harder than anyone I know. Not with personal tragedy (as far as I know)–it’s more that I’ve seen you really feeling the brunt of the larger social tragedies that have been descending from all sidesm, some of which have obvious personal resonance for someone trying to raise a family in this fucked up world. I’m hoping this 'mon can cheer you up a bit and hopefully dovetail with the curiosity you’ve had about Pokemon lately.
If my explanations get too technical (this is post gets pretty specific but is by no means the deepest I’ve ever been in the weeds in this thread) then you can check out my second post in this thread for explanations of stuff like, “OU meta” and other tactical things at play.
Anyway, hope you like it! It’s…a long one.
@azurelore, your sensitivity, intelligence, and The Dr.-esque sartorial flair makes you beeheeyem, the “cerebral,"* amnesia-inducing, alien ‘mon who might just be too intelligent for its own good.
As a beheeyem, you display an intriguing level of potential. With a Special Attack stat of 125, you’re one of the strongest Special Attackers in the OU metagame, and your 95 Special Defense stat ain’t too shabby, either. Unfortunately, your other defensive stats are on the low side of mediocre, which wouldn’t be too big a problem if your Speed weren’t abysmal. In Pokemon, you can either be fast and strong or defensive and strong. If you’re neither–well–you’re hitting second and you’re taking that hit on the chin. How can you stick around long enough to get something done? And, while your stats are a mixed bag of great qualities mixed with not-so-great qualities, your typing is–unfortunately–much the same.
Like all Psychic ‘mon, your typing is a bit of a blessing but a lot of a curse. One the one hand, you pretty much stay out of the elemental fray, hanging back and really only concerning yourself with metaphysical matters like Ghosts and hobbyist curiosities like Bugs and Poisons. However, any neutrality you might have enjoyed is hampered by your weakness to Dark type and Dark’s immunity to your moves. While one immunity isn’t too big an issue, your real problem is the ubiquity of Knock Off, a Dark-type move with a base power of only 65, which doubles in power if the opponent is holding an item and knocks the item off. Unfortunately for you and your cohorts, the sheer utility and damaging viability of this move make it a no-brainer for pokemon of any type. So, while simply avoiding match-ups with Dark types (who are overall type-frail themselves) isn’t too tall an order, it’s an impractical task to avoid every pokemon who could possibly be carrying Knock Off.
So what does this mean? Well, for everything handed to you by the lottery of life, something else is taken away. You come into this world with some major advantages–things others would kill for. But they may not realize the weaknesses that come along for the ride.
However, for every weakness you have, there is always a way to compensate–some strength from within or without that, if properly leveraged, gives you the ability not just to succeed but to excel, on your own terms, on your own merits, as yourself. And while it may be a struggle, at some points feeling counterintuitive or unnatural, you know it’s the only way you have.
So let’s take a deeper look at your advantages. As a Psychic type, you still have something that all lacking ‘mon envy, a factor that divides the metagame between serious threats and momentary inconveniences: a reliable recovery move. While other ‘mon might enjoy the 50% heal offered by Softboiled, the low-PP of weather-dependent heals, or the turn delay of Wish, you’ve got the original: 16 chances to heal half your HP–the difference between a guaranteed decline and a potential career in mayhem.
Of course, what’s the point of healing if you’re dying in one hit? While your Speed is unsalvageable, your defenses can be massaged. If we invest fully in your HP and your Defense you’ll be able to withstand your opponents long enough to use Recover.
However, if you don’t actually take down your opponents, it doesn’t really matter how long you stay out there. If we’re fully investing in your defenses, we’re not capitalizing on your exceptionally high attack. This is where we look to one of your natural gifts: the ability Analytic, which gives a 20% boost to all your attacks, provided that you go second. While 20% might not sound like much, it’s quite a lot when applied to your naturally high Special Attack stat. Actually, it’s about the same as if we had fully invested in your attack in the first place. In the end, you end up with exceptionally high defenses and attack, and your low speed becomes the catalyst for it.
Now, of course, none of this amounts to much if nearly any ‘mon can blindside you with a super-effective Knock Off, OHKO’ing you or bringing beyond recovery. For that, we pack Colburr Berry. Colburr Berry is a held item that halves a super-effective Dark-type attack one time (and is then consumed). While there are a bunch of type-specific defensive berries like this in Pokemon, they’re seldom used, simply because a one-time effect is generally less helpful than an ongoing benefit like increased attack or per turn healing. However, I’ve recently realized that Colburr Berry is far undervalued. Essentially, it works as Knock Off insurance, rebalancing the serious threat that Knock-Off poses to all Psychic ‘mon.
Basically, if you’re hit by Knock Off, the damage of the attack is halved, meaning that it’s unlikely to do major damage in the hands of a non-Dark ‘mon (who wouldn’t get Same Type Attack Bonus). Now, the Colburr Berry is consumed after one usage, so the opponent might think they’ll just use Knock Off again to strike their killing blow. But they’d have to be a total scrub to think that would work. Afterall, Knock Off does double-damage only if the opponent is holding an item. Once you’ve neutralized it one time, it can never be a threat to you again. It’s basically become a weak, non-STAB move with no bonus effect. Of course, you could simply carry no item and get the same result. But, if you’re holding Colburr Berry that means you have Knock Off insurance and the knowledge that you can halve the damage from any other Dark move one time. That’s a great thing to have in your back pocket and definitely not something the opponent will expect.
Sure: you use your precious item slot, essentially to make up for your inborn disadvantages. But, realistically, that’s what everyone ‘mon does. ‘Mon without a heal move pack healing options like Sitrus Berry and Leftovers. ‘Mon whose only purpose is quick, powerful attacks bring an attack buff which ultimately limits them severely, sapping their health or limiting them to one move. Every ‘mon find some way to bring an advantage that ultimately just allows them to compete at the standard of other ‘mon who brought advantages. Colburr Berry is your ticket to the big show, your artificial compensation for the little thing that holds you back.
Now that we’ve dealt with your disadvantages, let’s talk about what we have to work with. You’re a decent defensive tank with some major Special Attack. While your STAB Psychic moves will strike neutrally or super-effectively against everything other than Dark, a neutral hit still isn’t enough to OHKO a bulky opponent. Luckily, you have a pretty diverse movepool.
Aderack (Beheeyem) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Analytic
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Energy Ball
- Recover
While a Bug move like Signal Beam is tempting as a revenge attack against Dark ‘mon, when I crunched the numbers for all the match-ups that would be worth pressing, it turned out that HIdden Power Fire, and the Grass move Energy Ball were your best options. Hidden Power moves are always a lame 60BP, but in the OU meta some of the biggest threats are double-weak to Fire. Similarly, Grass attacks are rare in the OU meta, simply because Grass types are defensively frail; so they’re underused in general and often some kind of support or stall. And yet, you can easily one or two-hit KO major threats like mega-diancie or rotom-w with Energy Ball’s 90BP.
So there you have it. I’ve run the numbers on your match-ups, looking at the damage you do and the cost it takes, and what I see is a ‘mon that survives by taking hits and taking them well. Your broad moveset makes you viable against quite a few ‘mon that would have no common sense reason to fear you. And yet when two or three turns are up, you’re the one standing–licking your wounds, but still there, ready to use your next free turn for a Recover. It will be a struggle–not “at times” but all the time. You’re not one to get easy OHKO’s, and the wins you do get come from working the odds against the odds and coming out ahead from behind. But who can argue with results? You’re able to do what few can: clutch victory in your hands so tight that no other ‘mon can take it away–not without a fight.
*So says the pokedex itself!
do me
and then make a pokemon of me
While I was pretty confident with Aderack’s build, after my simulations (basically just calculating who Aderack could beat in a non-optimal match-up), I still thought I should run some training missions to see how he shook out.
Overall, he did pretty well–better than my expectations in some ways, in that he worked out exactly as planned. Though ultimately I just kind of threw together a quick and dirty team to test him, which…didn’t turn out that well.
I will say–however–that things would have played much differently if I weren’t–uh–also trying out an experimental build for Persona that…didn’t really work out at all. It would probably take at least two paragraphs to explain why this new build seemed interesting on paper but didn’t really work out. If anybody wants that explanation, I can write a separate post.
Suffice to say, this team doesn’t really work in general, but Persona’s normal build is so awesome that it wouldn’t have mattered. Anyway: that’s what training missions are for.
Let me know if it’s annoying to ping you guys for each battle. I could just do it for the first time you’re mentioned, but I figure this way you notice each battle where you get a mention.
No.
Okay.
Hm. You could be an interesting one!
