I will make a Pokemon of you 2.0 [Welcome to the Sun/Moon Meta: Video Warriors]

Here’s a quick summary of the night in order. If you’re only interested in watching one match, make it the third–pretty weird one, and we really had to scrap for it.

(Note: For some reason, the battles all start from the opponents perspective, but you can toggle back to the SB team perspective.)

@Ronnoc, you really get to shine in the final battle with a perfectly placed OHKO and a compliment from the opponent. You do even better in the sixth battle with 2 OHKO’s and a pull out at the exact right time to see the end of the battle.

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Yeah, wow, that paralyze was clutch in that third game.

Thanks for these! I like watching Pokemon a lot more than I like playing it.

Cool: glad to hear that someone is watching them!

Wasn’t sure if I should post every SB battle or just highlights or what. I’ll play by ear. Thought it made sense to post all of them this time, since it was a streak.

Rewatching that third battle, I made a number of bad calls that put me in that tight spot. I mostly regret losing Ronnoc. I actually thought there was a good chance he would Sucker Punch, but…took it anyway? Dumb. If I switched out it woudl have missed (it’s only effective if the opponent is also attacking).

It’s probably the most mis-managed battle of the night, but I guess I made it out in the end!

rip shrugmon

Don’t worry Bruce, I have a feeling that Shrugmon will return…most likely when I need to trick a ghost.

that Ditto battle, though…

So, yesterday’s ditto match got me thinking.

I checked out the Smogon entry on ditto, just to see how it’s regarded. Turns out it’s generally recommendable for any format, since the basic ditto strategy is scaleable. Though I’ve literally never seen one in OU before, so just figured they were as much of an empty promise as in 1st and 2nd gen.

Turns out that the big difference is that ditto now has the ability Imposter, which makes it transform into the pokemon it’s facing immediately (and it still has Transform as a move, so it can switch later, if it stays in). The catch is that ditto copies everything about the pokemon other than the item, the IV’s, and the HP stat. So, you’re stuck with relatively low HP.

On the other hand, you can equip Choice Scarf as an item, which pretty much ensure you’ll go first. Choice Scarf multiplies your Speed by 1.5 but restricts you to the first move you use. This explains why I couldn’t win the joust last night.

So the conservative use of ditto is to throw it out against Dragons or Ghosts. Both are weak to their own type, so a Dragon or Ghost against a faster version of itself is fucked unless it runs away ('course you could switch to a fairy which would be immune to Dragon or a Normal type, which is immune to ghost). Other than that, of course, there are plenty of other mind games you can play. In Doubles I’ve seen ditto copy the legendary pokemon it was standing next to on its team, doubling that very significant threat.

Anyway, all that got me thinking about how ditto is essentially the greatest recon tool in the game. If you throw it out vs. an opponent, you learn their exact move set and ability. That’s huge! So, I thought it would be interesting to do an alternate build of ditto oriented around using ditto as a Pivot: scouting the enemy by taking STAB hits it will automatically resist (most of the time).

To this end, we’ll hold Sitrus Berry, which heals 1/4 of the ditto’s HP when ditto is below 1/2 HP. Since ditto will only be switching in and switching out, essentially extending ditto’s HP by 1/4 quickly is probably more useful than getting back 1/16th at the end of each turn with Leftovers. Ultimately, the Choice Scarf set is probably a better idea anyway, but it’ll be interesting to try this alternate build.

Obviously, I would never make any of you a ditto. I can’t think of anyone on SB that–y’know–copies people. But, I did think of someone in the SB Expanded Universe who perfectly fits the caricature…

So there you have it! Recon Smith!

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I can’t believe they made Ditto viable in this gen.

Believe it baby!

Rewatching this battle yet again, I just want to point out some minutiae that might be interesting to some of you pokebattlers.

When it came down to that Clefable vs. Dragonite showdown, I definitely needed that one paralysis to survive. That first, non-crit Moonblast did 77% damage, I could only heal 50% + 6% (Leftovers) per turn. But! What really saved me was Multiscale, dragonite’s super-awesome ability. With Multiscale, you take half damage as long as you’re at full health. Other than a wider elemental move pool, this is the reason to choose dragonite over salamence for bulk (whereas Moxie is the reason to go with salamence as the Outrage sweeper).

So, on move 26, I knew full well that if I could get that next Roost in, I would take half damage from the next Moonblast, which was all the edge I needed to win the showdown (and thus the match). Luckily, I got another paralyze free turn, which took some of the stress off, but actually

I should also point out two other things about this showdown:

  1. If Clefable had healed with Soft-Boiled I would probably have been fucked. It would have healed 50%, I could only do about 35% damage with Extreme Speed. I won’t fully work out the turn order, but I would need to heal up to Multiscale at least one more time to edge out the math there, and I don’t think I could’ve without more paralysis breaks.

  2. Extreme Speed saved the whole match. Actually, I didn’t even need the +2 priority (+1 would have been fine), but Extreme Speed also does 80bp (double the other priority moves), so it needed to be Extreme Speed. If I had not had the first shot for clefable showdown, I would have been out-sped and dead. If I had not had it for the final ditto-dragonite showdown its Choice Scarf would have outsped me, and I’d be dead. 'Course, if the opponent had used Extreme Speed zhe would have gotten a hit in, but my guess is that they used Thunder Punch, because it was the only viable option. If I had dumbly not used Extreme Speed, Thunder Punch might have KO’ed me.

So there you go: too much analysis about three moves in one poke-battle.

Probably should have pointed out that another title for this match could be @Boojiboy7 Crushes a Dream.

Booj, the pkmn you OHKO’ed is one of the most threatening in the OU meta, and the one you were about to 2HKO is even more scary. Mamoswine is not seen all that often in competitive play, but you’re really proving your worth on the team.

@sleepysmiles @sagegrimm @persona

In response to that convo we were having about stuff broken in the first generation, here’s a whole video of stuff I didn’t know about.

Weirdly, he doesn’t mention the near-invincibility of Psychics, but I guess he felt that was too obvious:

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sorry it’s taken me so long to say this but thanks tmkf, that’s perfect! I feel like my personality is definitely ghost type and being able to possess electrical equipment would be fun. you’re welcome to tweak the build any way you like, interested to hear your new idea for it.

Aw man all_monsters, I’m sorry to say that my idea for an upgrade doesn’t work.

I was planning to give you Eviolite, a held item that multiplies both of your defensive stats by 1.5, as long as your able to evolve. That’s a huge bonus! But apparently rotom doesn’t evolve into its other types, it “changes form.” So Eviolite is a no-go, and I’m pretty bummed about it.

You still have excellent typing, and I’m still going to build you into an OU team and see how you fair. But you might end up more comfortable in our UU format roster. We’ll see.

Anyway, glad you like your spirit 'mon. Try to stay out of mischief!

And–incidentally–both you and sleepysmiles can travel through time, so…maybe hang out?

@Gate88, as a coder, you’re very much aware of the importance of minor details. The difference between a program running or crashing, performing optimally or chugging, drawing the right pixel in the right place–it can be the difference of nesting a tuple, of shaving a redundancy from your schema, of managing information by the increment.

As a forretress, you find your purpose in these increments, in ensuring that little-by-little, your opponents’ plans begin to falter, knicked away bit by bit until they belly under their own weight, collapsing into the chaos of scattered fragments.

I talked in booj’s post about the importance of entry hazards in the OU meta. In short, just laying Stealth Rock severely punishes switch-ins, especially for the format’s many threatening Flying types, penalizing the typical bait-and-switch mind games while also thinning the margin of an OHKO for each of the opponents’ ‘mon.

Well Gate88, you not only have access to Stealth Rock–you’re also capable of laying all three of the game’s damaging entry hazards. And thus: you will.

Gate88 (Forretress) @ Custap Berry  
Ability: Sturdy  
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD  
Careful Nature  
IVs: 0 Spe  
- Pain Split  
- Spikes  
- Stealth Rock  
- Toxic Spikes

First,we’ll lay Stealth Rock, the most reliable. Next, it’s a choice between Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Spikes do 12.5% (non-type-dependent) damage upon switch-in, but they do not effect Flying types. They can be stacked three times, with a max of 25% damage. Toxic Spikes poison anything that isn’t Flying, levitating, or immune to poison (Poison, Steel, or with a special ability). They stack twice, with the first layer poisoning (-1/8th HP) and the second layer badly poisoning (-1/16th, plus an additional -1/16th for every turn in battle, reset upon switch-out). If the team is light on Steel or Poison types and likely doesn’t have a cleric, we’ll usually try for a layer of Toxic Spikes, since it’s a real thorn in the side of any team. Otherwise, one or two layers of Spike damage on top of Stealth Rock completely ruins the day of the opponent.

Of course, all this is contingent on you getting a few good moves in, which isn’t always guaranteed in the fast-KO world of Pokemon Showdown. Your affinity for the finer things in life may be one of your great gifts, and yet in superhero fashion, it may just be born of your greatest weakness.

As a Steel/Bug type, you have a somewhat unflappable air that strangers sometimes interpret as emotional distance. Though perhaps this chilled persona belies a vulnerability in need of protection, the same vulnerability your hyper-vigilance surveils–the chink in your armor that turns assets into burdens and vices into virtues. Unfortunately, most opponents will be all too aware of your x4 weakness to Fire-type attacks. On the one hand,this is your only weakness, which makes you one of the most defensive type combinations in the game. On the other, powerful Fire type moves are quite common, so if you were to try to avoid them you’d spend much of the battle running away.

There’s no avoiding this conversation: you’re a natural fit as a Suicide Lead. We start with you, you lay your hazards, and we don’t switch you out until you’re dead. Now, if the other team doesn’t have a Fire type, that could be quite a while. You’re naturally bulky, and with no need to invest in Attack or kid ourselves with Speed, we’ll fill out your defensive stats. But if they do have a Fire type…well…that’s where your ability Sturdy comes in. As long as the enemy doesn’t have the ability Mold Breaker (no Fire types do), you cannot be OHKO’ed. If your HP is at full, a would-be OHKO will leave you with 1 HP. That’s where your Custap Berry comes into play. Once you’re below ¼ HP, your Custap will ensure that you go first next turn, securing at least one parting blow.

In your case, that could be another hazard layer, though it’s customary to part ways with Explosion, a Normal move with a monstrous 250BP (for comparison, the base power for the best move in a typing will usually be 100-140BP). However, as the detail-oriented type, you’re very much aware that many of the opponents who would take you down, including heatran, dragonite, and magnezone wouldn’t even take 40% damage from Explosion, even if your Attack were fully maxed out. That’s why you favor the programmatic precision of Pain Split: it combines your current HP with your opponent’s and divides the number by two, distributing the result to both of you. This will result in you halfing the current HP of your enemy while actually healing yourself by the same amount. Now, if your enemy uses the same Fire move they used to get you down to 1HP in the first place, the healing doesn’t matter much. But I know from experience that when someone thinks you’re as good as dead, they tend to get a little cocky. If they use a priority move “just to be sure” or switch out to get ready for the next opponent, you’ve just bought yourself 1-3 more moves. Quite a return on a suicide mission!

In short, you won’t last long, but you’re sure to go out in a blaze of glory. Though, actually, your real enemies are not Fire types so much as openers that reflect hazards back at your team like mega-diancie, mega-sableye, mega-absol, and espeon. And, of course if the enemy has a ‘mon with Defog (clears the field of hazards) or Rapid Spin (clears the user’s side of hazards), all your good work is washed away. However, these moves are relatively rare, so you can usually take a guess at who might be packing them (starmies, tentacruels, latias/latioses, dragonites), in which case we may not sacrifice you and instead keep you around for future switch-ins.

So there you have it, though you can be a bit single-minded at times, your specialty is singularly beneficial to the team. You excel in an area that requires a dedication that most of us aren’t willing to commit to, and you’re willing to follow that path straight off the cliff, because–hey–life is short, so do what you love. And perhaps you can die smiling, knowing the legacy of ephemera you leave behind, lingering like a digital memory until wiped away.

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I’m totally down with this strategy, even if it doesn’t work!

I am done with restraint

Poke this mon

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Oh, that strategy totally works! I’ve actually used this build before on one of my most successful teams. Usually, you get about two hazards down, then get a Pain Split before death. You’re honestly one of the most important members of the team, and I was excited to get to someone who reminded me of a capable Hazard starter. They just make the whole battle a lot smoother.

Just gotta watch out for those defoggers and hazard bouncers. Most opponents will assume you’re the starter, so we can play with that as well. Ronk might be a good match for you. How could keep OHKO any Fire 'mon sent to kill you, as well as sableye, a typical counter.

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FYI @sagegrimm I’ve been working on your 'mon throughout the weekend. Yours is proving to be kind of a tough one, and I have several ideas that I’ll have to test for efficacy.

So far, all of my ideas for you are at least slightly unconventional, but–who knows–I might end up defaulting to something tried and true if, at the last minute, it reminds me of you.

You don’t actually have a thing for birds, right? I’ve been assuming that your avatar is just–y’know–an avatar. But if you like birds, that’s a totally different ballpark.

I don’t go out of my way to seek them out but I tend to run into them when I go for walks. Or see hawks just chilling on signs and trees when I drive by them on the way to work. So take that as you will. :slightly_smiling: