Dish Honored 2: The Assiette of Shame

King of Posters
#41

I also appreciate that the game is relatively generous about grading me on the side of stealth vs aggression (as opposed to the other lethal vs nonlethal axis) because I’m always concerned when playing these sorts of games that I’m too systematic about taking everyone down purely because I can

I’m not sure how much better the levels really are in this game than the last one but it seems like a lot.

I’m also always ambivalent about the way they hand out upgrades – between the “powers” menu in the inventory screen that is 100% known from the start and the other upgrades available at the black markets here and there, it feels a little mushy. but the level design totally keeps it going.

#42

they’re more sparing about reusing environments in this one. last time around it seemed like that was something they’d done very deliberately (shades of deus ex there) but it didn’t really feel good. it’s also less aggressively derivative of half life 2 in its architecture, though the setting doesn’t feel like much of anywhere. it’s supposed to be like steampunk Victorian England by way of the Mediterranean this time and the best levels are the ones that take place in islands or isolated mansions that could be anywhere.

idk, I prefer it to the first beyond a point that I can articulate or justify right now. other than how UE3 didn’t feel like it accomplished anything significantly beyond thief and deus ex whereas id tech seems maybe to have. though the introduction is needlessly, clumsily worse.

#43

also the outsider is super cringey, I remember being strangely underwhelmed by his introduction in the first game and if anything it’s worse here.

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#44

thats funnny when I heard it was a different voice actor I wondered if it was cause they were trying to fix that

#45

yeah. the within-mission writing is still good, but the framing and the major characters are still a step way down from deus ex and no better than the last game (though the power fantasy is still above average).

this is definitely not as exciting as Hitman or titanfall 2, it’s good but 90% of the improvement on the last game is the engine and visual design

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#46

It’s nice to have sun and I’m happy to poke through spacious mid-19th century french apartments.

The storytelling is better than the new Deus Ex but only once you toss all the dialogue and writing. The world remains convincing and awful and it’s easier to spend stretches of time in it with a gentle breeze.

I’m starting to think that the powers give me an uncomfortable sense that each encounter is optional – even if I screw up, I can just teleport away and try again. Why look through keyholes when you can see through whiles? Perhaps Geralt had the right of it when stuck to his own feet. Presumably they felt the same and added the optional ‘no powers’ mode.

#47

I just got to level 5 and so far the game has fully met my expectations but not quite exceeded them. I’m enjoying the story even if the dialog and voice work isn’t so hot at times. They’ve got a lot more little lore dumps sprinkled through each area. I’m at 9 1/2 hours playtime so far because I can’t resist reading every little scrap of paper I come across. I probably could have finished the game by now if I could just make myself ignore that stuff!

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#48

having finished the first main area I feel the level design is surpassing the original. the difficulty is more satisfying, too. guess it’s just a wonky opening, which is a shame because the first’s opening was so flawless imo

1 Like
#49

I heard this game has Dark Messiah-style physics kicking, y/n?

#50

I have definitely kicked a few people Dark Messiah-like, yes. Though I’m not sure if it’s a consistently repeatable action or something that just happens occasionally when you attack. My most recent kick happened when I ran into an enemy and attacked so maybe that’s what you have to do. They go flying when you kick them that’s for sure.

Also really liking the level design a lot and how much vertical space plays a role this time around. There’s always a way for you to go up and around.

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#51

this is definitely a poster child for the trend of games having better and better text dumps and incidental dialogue and less and less interesting overarching plots. a lot of big-budget games just treat the plot as throwaway staging despite clearly having talented writers on staff.

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#52

maybe the stories in these things end up having to be half-assedly written around and stitching together the pre-existing levels

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#53
#54

Or, it all made so much sense at first, and was so damn elegant, but then we cut levels X, Y, Z. Hopefully it still makes sense.

Ok, so now we cut level B and mechanic G. But we can patch over the arc there.

Oh, so character M is now DLC? How do we contrast their arc to the player’s then? Well, hopefully it will at least be cogent.

This is how you end a Lord of the Rings game about using the One Ring to dominate minds with a happy ending.

#55

We’ve never really talked, as a forum about Shadow of Mordor. I honestly think it’s worth talking about.

#56

I mean, it won the GDC grand prize, which I think still perplexes some people who haven’t looked at it very closely (myself included)

#57

Note that the Souls series, despite being ever on the tip of the tongue of AAA designers, has never gotten close to winning one of these.

GDC Developer’s Choice awards are a sampling of the taste of every artist, engineer, producer, designer working a full-time+ job and satisfied to work in AAA. It’s built to produce results like the Oscars.

IGF awards and festivals produce more interesting results because judges are:

  • Tasked with looking for cool new things, and
  • Not responsible for purchasing games they’re judging – they’ve never seen most submissions. GDC awards only pull from the games people have already played that very year.
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#58

shadow of mordor is just not that interesting to talk about. there’s a brilliant idea at the core, surrounded by a thousand mediocre ones

#59

is there an article anywhere about all that specifically

#60

The Writer Will Do Something

It’s just a structural issue on big projects because narrative is always, always, always subjugated to gameplay, engineering, art. Narrative is most able to resist when it has real money behind it – once voice recording has been done. Even then, words are cheap and everything else is irresistible…

So naturally the only narratively focused projects we’re getting are small enough for the creator to clearly will it in: <10 people.