I feel 3 is what 2 should’ve been; in the sense that if you are going to numerically sequel a game like Demon’s or Dark Souls, then ok, find someway to tie-in to the swirling mists of lore, and yeah evolve designs a bit. Otherwise, find another D word or brand it anew.
I was super pissy about Dark Souls 2 when it was announced, a lot of the first artwork and details screamed “iron-hot” eagerness to strike again, and build brand with a bigger, clunkier, fan-blade. And playing it, that was pretty much how it felt - fun simply by having Souls structure and gameplay, but so much that was uninspired or cheap. Borrowed and not treated properly.
Bloodborne is arguably their finest work in this vein, I can only knock it for having less area and stat/item variety. I’ve spent a lot more time with Demon’s and Dark Souls than anything since but that’s because they were intoxicating and addictive as hell to start.
What makes me want to play 3 and Bloodborne for their gamey qualities is that they apparently feel more similar to 1 and Demon’s than they do to 2. My biggest problem w/ 2 is that controlling your knight or whatever feels like shit compared to the ones before it. People want to give Miyazaki all the credit, but it’s whoever he keeps poaching to do the character physics that needs more love imo
¯_(ツ)_/¯
In 2 it feels to me like you’re gliding across the ground, the character is ridic fast and oddly weightless. The animations have such little punch compared to DeS/1 (especially backstabs and parries). Rolling feels like it sucks.
Just doesn’t do it for me.
Dark Souls 2 still feels the most like a dark fantasy game to me, aside from Demon’s, and a lot of it has to do with the janky controls. I like the fact that my character feels super awkward because I just think if you’re carrying an inhuman amount of stuff and doing all the other insane stuff you do constantly throughout these games, that it should feel awkward. Demon’s Souls thrives every bit as much on awkwardness as 2 does and that’s part of what makes the experience rewarding. Controlling a character that controls too tightly is actually kinda frustrating past the 100 hour mark because you develop a sense of uncertainty about whether mistakes are yours or are associated with how the character’s evolved in some way (made worse by the fact that every new game’s stats in the series became more convoluted and items functioning in EXTREMELY specific ways). How the game controls in all these games feels like it’s equally restrictive and at times overly permissive, but you’re so often not sure which that it tends to be frustrating to figure out.
Even now, I still don’t feel like I have a good feel for how the Farron Greatsword’s moveset works (by which I mean, I still feel uncertain about where the weapon’s hitbox is and where your hurtbox is, and at best can only approximate their location) in spite of having used it in thousands of PvP matches and across three different characters with well over 200 hours of play total. I find it strange that such a feeling still exists after so much use. And strangely, I found that the games that most qualify as being awkard (DS2, Demon’s) are also the ones that I felt ended up being decoded the fastest, especially with regards to how they control. Even if people disliked how iframes worked in them, people also tended to learn much more quickly that iframes worked a certain way in DS2 and Demon’s and seemed to adapt to those oddities much more readily.
As for difficulty - I always tend to use deaths as the measurement for difficulty. And by this measure the most difficult boss is still the Anor Londo archer in DS1 (only way I figured out to consistently beat this boss was by using the Mage’s invisibility spell).
But what your character actually moves slower and rolls differently and even walks/runs w/ a different posture based on how much armor you wear in 1. That they added these details from Des->Dark and then took them out is exactly a thing that bothers me. And tying iframes to a numerical stat was such a godawful decision for several reasons, not the least being that dodging feels imprecise and unreliable (and yet is favored because the developers also nerfed shields, what the hell!!). You know exactly what you’re getting when you fast/medium/fatroll in 1, in 2 it’s an invisible “will this hit me or not?” slider based on how much you grinded ADP and i hate this
IDK, i accept we have different feelings about this, not trying to argue anyone out of it, im just mystified by that gulf in perception. There are a zillion little stupid things ppl pick on 2 for that i think are overblown (the world design being merely OK and not an amazing followup to the once-in-a-blue-moon brilliance of Lordran is a big one), but the movement and physicality has always stuck in my craw (since literally the first 10 minutes i played the game!) and no one ever seems to be bothered by it as much as me D:
anyway sorry for relitigating the “dark souls 2 is not as good as the other ones, no shit” argument that im sure we’re all sick of :\
I am almost positive this is due to lag. DSouls’ lag is legendarily wack. It is highly inconsistent and its effect on hit confirmation is inconsistent even within a given amount of lag.
Could be, but I think there were certainly times where I could tell lag was the issue versus just not being able to feel out where the hitbox actually was. Especially prevalent when I used the weapon outside of PvP and in the DS3 DLC which made that feeling even more prevalent due to how many enemies are low to the ground.
Farron Greatsword is still probably my favorite weapon in any Souls (and BB) game, bar none. That new quill weapon in the DS3 DLC could have been fun if the darts were just a bit more meaty and the animations more precise.
Farron Greatsword (DS3), the Whip Sword (BB), and the Kirkhammer (BB) are my favorite Souls weapons (in order). I like playing mages more than any of these so I guess a staff is “technically” my favorite weapon (and due to the amount of viable magic in DS2, is a big reason why it’s my favorite of the Souls 1-3 trilogy), but if I could cast them without a staff I’d do that. Weapon choice is really all down to how I’m feeling when I wanna play a Souls game though.
OK, I think the Grand Archives might be my favorite place from this game, and one of the series’ very best, even with diminished-returns-fatigue setting in.
There’s only one bonfire, at the start, and the shortcuts – numerous enough to lend a helping hand without going overboard – are designed around this. It’s a refreshing, brief return to Demon’s Souls’ level design methodology and how Dark Souls’ places initially felt five years ago.
The crystal mage who acts a dynamic threat while guiding you along a general vertical route gives your progression a very different feeling from any other place in the game. It seems a bit more videogame-y and linear than usual, but these elements are never undermined by the scenario itself.
All of the opponents before you get to the rooftop sections, barring the outrider knights, are trivial, bordering on being non-threats, yet they create complex scenarios by their placements and mixtures. It shows that engaging design can still exist even with well-worn mechanics and the near-complete absence of super-tough brutes.
It’s a volumetric area whose full flavor, rather than being diminished by highlighting the contrivances and downtimes, comes out if you poke around every inch of it, indulging in the nooks, overlappings, side-routes, and places to fall from. Exemplifies From’s ability to interestingly counter-balance symmetrical macro-layouts with nested asymmetries. It’s both pleasing to see and pleasing to go through.
Looking for your very strongest arguments as to why Dark Souls 2 is bad/lacking/inferior/etc… Please prioritize discussing SotFS over vanilla; I consider it to be the definitive version. I am doing some research for a piece in defense of DS2. If possible, try to pivot between directly comparing it to other Souls games and evaluating it on its own merits. I want your most vicious takedowns, so haters, come out of the woodwork. Thank you in advance.
Feel free.
Already getting kind of sad that no one commenting has played KF or Shadow Tower (or any of the other games from which one can draw a relatively direct line to Souls). I feel very, very strongly that knowing how the earlier games operate helps you understand the “language” of From, and without that, the new games seem self-contained and isolated, as if they came from nowhere. As a result, most of the things that people appreciate about the newer games seem like mere bonuses to me, and somewhat immaterial to the (pardon me) “soul” of the games. Again, probably not an entirely agreeable opinion to those here.
short take on 2 is that it is a pretty solid effort + take on Souls from a different team than the original (esp. considering that it got chopped and screwed midway through development) that i would enjoy a lot more if i could divorce it from its context as a sequel. unfortunately i can’t and the game doesn’t want me to. I think the polarized response to it can be attributed to how many of its decisions seem to be a reaction against the original. If you didnt like the elements that its reacting to, you’ll prefer 2; if you did, you’ll probably be less fond of it. i fall into the latter camp, though i hardly think the game is a garbage fire. the only things i outright dislike are the movement/physics, the shallower level design and the more flat, forgettable NPC stories.
i confess i havent played sotfs, though im aware of the alterations made to its story and encounter design, and am willing to give it a shot if i ever get the opportunity. i cant imagine it did much to change the things i didnt like about vanilla though since that’s pretty root-level design.
the first 10 hours of dark souls 1 are basically the best first 10 hours of any game i can imagine. i’m just forever sad that the game utterly fails to maintain that level of excellence. it set itself up to fail, in my mind, by frontloading all of the most interesting stuff. after O+S, i generally get no further in a playthrough because all of the areas i like are cleared, with the exception of duke’s archives, which is neat. HOWEVER, i haven’t played the DLC beyond getting stuck at the first boss; need to get on that soon.
conversely, the dlc in ds2 is better than any part of ds1 for me by a long shot, and the game beautifully builds as it goes and gains steam. i will concede that the opening areas of 2 (fotfg, heide’s) are horrible (well… not quite horrible, but so much less impactful than the opening of 1)
Duke’s Archives have actually become the Lord Soul-housing place I like least… maybe of any place in the game? Hard to say why. It looks cool and it’s intelligently set up, but something about how… you go through it? feels cold and flat and resigned to a bland austerity. There’s a vague, watery stasis to the design. Doesn’t help that you always know you’re working towards the non-events that are the exterior wood and crystal caves.
Tomb of the Giants: owns beyond belief. How did it get past QA
Demon Ruins/Lost Izalith: both extremely flawed, underdeveloped, really good
New Londo Ruins: overall v good, especially if you’re going there early
Oh, I’ve been making vids to highlight DS3’s ambient sound design
Hmm. Well, you should certainly finish the Oolacile DLC. i think it fills out the back half nicely. Though, Izalith aside (and i dont even hate Izalith really), ive never thought of the post-Lordvessel levels as glaringly weaker than the others, just comparatively sedate. Kind of a weird falling action after the climax of one of the best levels in the game (w/ the straight-up best level quietly, secretly nested inside) and the hardest boss fight.
Conversely i dont think the post-Drangleic levels of 2 are a noticeable improvement on the first part of the game. There are some strong levels like Amana->Crypt, but all of them really double down on the linearity. Aldia’s House ‘o’ Spookums is one of the game’s nadirs imo.
The first DLC brings back a little bit of that DeS/1 magic – the feeling of being in an actual physical space and being able to track your progress visually at each point in the journey. Even the good levels in the rest of the game really lack that. Boletarian Palace feels like a castle; Drangleic (a level i dislike) feels like a castle-themed theme park.
For my money the best levels in the game, DLC aside, are No Man’s Wharf and the Bastille. Maybe Huntsman’s Copse? Maybe that gives an idea of my tastes.
this is the, if not one of the, most prevalent criticisms, but it’s something that i view as a strength rather than a weakness. i think the approaches of both games are valid, but dark1 just feels much more insular and self-concerned, where 2 is erratic and unpredictable and willing to evade your expectations in interesting ways
mob enemies complaints are another area where the criticisms don’t hold water to me. all of this will be elaborated on eventually. there’s so much to cover, and i keep feeling like there’s so much more research that has to be done.
