went through amazon reviews from 2009 of demon's S to see what people were comparing it to

Yeah Demon’s Souls does have something like the Megaman structure, which is a comparison I haven’t thought of before.

And one way of thinking about the grass/Estus systems is that From aimed to reinvent the “lives” system of NES games. “lives” were a rightly abandoned mechanic by 2009: they’re opaque, rigid, and the way they carry over gamelong (whether in the direction of abundance or scarcity) is imbalanced. But From also realized something of value was lost with them.

In many other ways though, Demon’s is absolutely nothing like NES games. NES games are defined partly by the extreme simplicity of their controller and general absence of RPG upgrade elements (Zelda II excepted – BTW another good game to compare specifically with Demon’s, particularly the bleakness of its world).

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Though isn’t this, like, practically any old videogame built around stages. I don’t see how it’s specifically comparable to Mega Man. Demon’s also lets you open up shortcuts in nearly all of its stages: hugely important to making repeat attempts less exhausting, and something that MM never does.

I think maybe the most profound comparison between Demon’s (and its followups) and older videogame models is that the designs don’t make any distinction between spaces for traversal and spaces for action. This is very different from other popular action/adventure games where you’ll have a climbing segment, or whatever, and then find yourself in an arena for a fight against goons. It also has the potential to create more awkward situations, depending on the space’s geometry, but From seems to have embraced that as something which lends the combative scenarios more texture.

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What’s specifically comparable to Megaman:

  • the stage select structure
  • the bosses. Mega Man is responsible for inventing bosses as we know them today – its bosses are about equally difficult as the stage itself and cycle randomly through attack patterns that control space and timings in carefully designed ways. Most other NES games have bosses that are relatively token and forgettable
  • the ability to beat any section using your basic abilities, or try to use an acquired skill to do so more easily

zelda ii is the first souls type experience IMO. people never talk about how the last dungeon in zelda ii is somewhat randomly generated.

it’s an unrefined game with some mechanical problems, but honestly I feel like it’s the exact same kind of experience. there’s even rudimentary sword and board combat.

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It’s notable that none of the Souls games have an area like the NES Zelda final dungeons. Which are huge, chaotically arranged, viciously difficult mazes full of dead ends or pointless loopbacks. It feels like the Souls games would have one of those, but they don’t. Blighttown-type areas give the impression they are going to be that, but ultimately they’re relatively cleanly arranged just like everything else. Chalice dungeons are like that, but not really in the service of difficulty.

the commonality is that both zelda ii and the souls game have just a touch of roguelike design which adds a meaningful accent of difficulty.

bloodborne does have randomly generated dungeons, but they are one of the less interesting parts of the game design.

It may be that Megaman invented/popularized these elements, but they’re so ubiquitous in design, and there’s been so much time between MM and DeS, that it’s hard to say the latter is influenced directly by the former. It’s like saying Terminator is influenced by Citizen Kane because it has some cool camera angles.

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I would describe Zelda combat something akin to hack-and-slash, but that’s def not the overall description of the game.