tell 'em, 'e tries

meauxdal · May 7, 2021, 7:09pm

hmm

github.com/audacity/audacity

Basic telemetry for the Audacity

audacity:master ← crsib:telemetry

opened 03:24PM - 04 May 21 UTC

crsib

+5506 -25

Dear all, Due to the large amount of worry about this PR, (which we completel…y understand), we want to clarify exactly what is going on: 1. Telemetry is **strictly optional and disabled by default**. No data is shared unless you choose to opt-in and enable telemetry. 2. Telemetry only works in the builds made by GitHub CI from the official repo (the telemetry URLs are only defined there). 3. If you are compiling Audacity from source, we will provide a CMake option to enable the telemetry code. This option will be turned **off** by default. ![image](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2660628/117440186-6312b100-af3c-11eb-884e-3db660a0cc1f.png) **Why have telemetry at all?** Essentially, it’s to help us to identify product issues early: 1. Audacity is widely used across several platforms, but we have no information on the application stability. 2. It is difficult for us to estimate the size of the user base accurately. 3. We need a way to make informed decisions about which OS versions to support. For example, can we raise the minimum version of the macOS to 10.10 to update the wxWidgets to the latest version? 4. We have a known issue with the new file format introduced in Audacity 3.0. We found it with the great help of the community members on our forum. However, there is no way for us to estimate the impact of these issues on users. Is it just a random case? Do we need to rush the work on the recovery tool or help the users one by one? Or do we need to rethink the file format to make it safer and more easily recoverable? Regarding the concerns about the choice of providers: 1. We do not incorporate cross-site tracking, limiting the ability to identify the user by both Google and Yandex. 2. Yandex would only receive the “application opened” event to help us estimate the size of the user base. 3. Google would only receive: a. Session start and end events; b. Errors for debugging; c. File formats used for import and export; d. OS and Audacity versions; e. Use of effects, generators, and analysis tools to prioritize future improvements; 4. We will consider replacing Google and Yandex with another service if we find one that fulfills our requirements - thanks for the suggestions and keep them coming. Just to reiterate, **telemetry is completely optional and disabled by default**. We will try to make it as clear as possible exactly what data is collected if the user chooses to opt-in and enable telemetry. We will consider adding the fine-grained controls that some of you have asked for. --- Also: To address the concerns about use of private library versions, the largest part of this pull request is a networking layer built on top of **libcurl**. This library is chosen as it is an industry-standard for cross-platform networking. It is exceptionally tested and reviewed by industry experts. The layer on top of it, aka `lib-network-manager` meant to simplify the development of future features. **libcurl** is used without any patches. It is possible to use the system-provided version of the library available on the Linux distributions, and we will double-check that this works as expected. --- Original PR description: This request provides the basic telemetry for Audacity. To implement the network layer libcurl is used to avoid issues with the built-in networking of the wxWidgets. Universal Google Analytics is used to track the following events: * Session start and end * Errors, including errors from the sqlite3 engine, as we need to debug corruption issues reported on the Audacity forum * Usage of effects, sound generators, analysis tools, so we can prioritize future improvements. * Usage of file formats for import and export * OS and Audacity versions To identify sessions we use a UUID, which is generated and stored on the client machine. We use Yandex Metrica to be able to correctly estimate the daily active users correctly. We have to use the second service as Google Analytics is known to have some really tight quotas. Both services also record the IP the request is coming from. Telemetry collection is optional and configurable at any time. In case of data sharing is disabled - all calls to the telemetry Report* functions are no-op. Additionally, this pull request comes with a set of libraries to help the future efforts on Audacity.

SUPERSONNICK · May 7, 2021, 7:18pm

most-read commit of the week, hands down…

Sakurina · May 7, 2021, 8:26pm

I feel bad for these developers. They recognized an area where having additional data would be useful to improving the app and identifying bugs, they implemented telemetry in the least user-hostile way they could with sane defaults, and even tried to predict potential backlash to address that criticism in their proposed patch, and the community isn’t having any of it.

The only thing they could have done better is go with an analytics vendor that isn’t entangled in the ad/search business, or roll their own telemetry backend. But that doesn’t even matter if you’re opting out!

meauxdal · May 7, 2021, 8:51pm

i am not going to purport to understand everything going on behind the scenes here, but i do not extend crsib the benefit of the doubt you are extending here. whether or not this is a good faith attempt to improve the software is still up for debate. having read the entire thread and several other related materials, the only vocal proponents of the change as suggested (which was not discussed anywhere publicly prior to the PR - thus the clusterfuck of the thread today) are the requester and this user, who you may note is also involved in this thread: How to respond to the takedown request email? · Issue #5 · Xmader/musescore-downloader · GitHub

there are more threads to unravel. i don’t see good faith, personally

i think this is a failure of imagination.

telemetry is not necessarily the problem in and of itself. this was not handled correctly.

meauxdal · May 7, 2021, 9:02pm

some additional context:

Felix · May 7, 2021, 9:04pm

this is also complicated by audacity having been in a GIMP-like state of basic unmaintainedness for years, running easily a decade behind even other free and open source audio editors but beloved because it’s extremely simple

Gate88 · May 7, 2021, 9:10pm

I understand the symbolic rejection of the new owners but I would also claim that it is incredibly difficult to improve software without analytics so it’s hard for me to conclude this specific act is “bad faith”.

Users rarely, if ever, self-report issues they’re having, and when they do it’s nearly impossible to get any details out of them. If I were tasked with improving Audacity, I’d likely have the same first step, because it’s not obvious how Audacity is even being used in 2021. What are the common use cases? What are the most used features? Least used features?

I don’t know the rest of the history, but taken in isolation this change is neutral. It’s the same change a “good faith” or “bad faith” actor would make as a first step in “improving” the software.

meauxdal · May 7, 2021, 9:13pm

it’s not really neutral until they remove Google and Yandex from the running or explain (in detail) why no other option is suitable, which they have yet to do despite near-unanimous rejection from the community. if and when that occurs good faith will seem more likely from my perspective

meauxdal · May 7, 2021, 9:16pm

and again: why was this not discussed before a large PR, including new libraries and other changes? none of this was asked after beforehand. this blow-up was predictable. the revised OP in the PR pretty much admits as much

doolittle · May 7, 2021, 9:22pm

Using something besides GA in this instance is really iceskating uphill, idk

There’s basically no comparable product for the simplicity

Felix · May 7, 2021, 9:23pm

yeah, I mean, the problem is that the community of audacity users are, clearly, exactly the kind of people who see no use for best practices and analytics whatsoever, and if you wanted to buy and improve an open source audio editor, you should have probably chosen a different one

(ardour is great, you can do pretty good leveling and whatnot which is most of what audacity is good for in kdenlive, using unlicensed reaper is pretty much like unlicensed sublime text, ie very generous)

linux gonna linux

meauxdal · May 7, 2021, 9:25pm

i also think this is not quite right. the new owners were being welcomed as the early comments on the linked tantacrul video should suggest - tantacrul is a widely popular figure and it is believed he will takes steps to improve the UI. i was thinking this might be an overall positive change yesterday.

as someone who uses audacity every day, i’m not heartened with the initial moves by Muse Group toward this software and i need way more from them especially after this stuff

i see the value in analytics but have you seen the ones they are trying to implement? i need more explanation from them about the usefulness of these analytics, especially if they are going to get disabled by every linux distribution anyway…

i do NOT trust these folks and they’ve given zero reason for anyone to trust them yet. why not remain skeptical until then - i am certainly anxious about the direction of the software as a user.

meauxdal · May 7, 2021, 9:29pm

i am fundamentally against a philosophical model of trusting “new owners” and assuming good faith by default. now, that being said, i don’t really go looking for trouble.

in this exact context, if devs try to push through something like this, and certainly, now - if they just continue ahead as planned and ignore the cries of foul play from the community, i will be among those looking for a fork.

doolittle · May 7, 2021, 9:30pm

Session start and end

Errors, including errors from the sqlite3 engine, as we need to debug corruption issues reported on the Audacity forum

Usage of effects, sound generators, analysis tools, so we can prioritize future improvements.

Usage of file formats for import and export

OS and Audacity versions

These are all extremely benign, basically collecting events so they can assign resources?

meauxdal · May 7, 2021, 9:33pm

Do they 100% need all of what you listed to be exported to Google and Yandex via an undiscussed PR over the subsequent objections of the community en masse? I guess we’ll find out soon!

doolittle · May 7, 2021, 9:36pm

It’s not exported to it’s collected by. Building out comparable tracking in-house would be a huge waste of time whereas the GA implementation is off-the-shelf and easy to staff.

meauxdal · May 7, 2021, 9:36pm

i am a little upset and i could be way off here but i am a little frustrated…

i understand analytics are normalized and we’re all surveilled at all times anyway

we all(?) want audacity to be better software

i am just less trusting than y’all, apparently. time will tell

meauxdal · May 7, 2021, 9:38pm

anyway @workedintheory put it best, if i may cut his sentence short to emphasize my own meaning:

All of this is simply words. I completely understand this. I can only suggest that you look to our actions

Felix · May 7, 2021, 9:38pm

I don’t trust anyone to ever make a good decision with a computer, there’s just nothing here to get upset about

meauxdal · May 7, 2021, 9:40pm

i’m not upset at the situation, just the inability to express a realistic, meaningful objection that doesn’t feel condescended to. probably unsolvable. i am, after all, kind of an idiot! really