Actually the best part of the second Spiderman movie was how in the bank robbery they literally stole bags of gold coins instead of money.
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And Joel McHale tries to steal one and Aunt May slaps it out of his hand. Amazing scene
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Well, I mean
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So I am continuing on this arduous journey for some reason, last night I watched The Amazing Spider-Man.
Folks, itâs not good. I donât even really know what to say. It has that same sloppy feeling as the first Spider-Man, plus a lot of extra plot scaffolding you can tell they are trying to use to create some kind of multi-film overarching plot about Peter Parkerâs Dad injecting his son with the Spider Formula or something. Itâs telegraphed really heavily in this and yet thereâs absolutely no resolution for it in this movie, or, if I remember right, in the next one either. (Iâll let you know I guess, lol).
Other more minor things still just seem weirdly chopped up. Like the scene where the Lizard unleashes his Lizard Gas on the cops and you see them start to transform, then you see them detransform when they get the antidote. There was obviously some more business with the lizard cops that they either never shot or just cut out, but if thatâs the case why leave those scenes in? It is just distracting. Thereâs a ton of other stuff like that in here but itâs a waste of time to list it all. It basically just makes it very hard to follow because the movie is constantly foreshadowing things that never happen.
Andrew Garfieldâs performance in this one is really bizarre. He almost never completes an entire sentence of dialogue. He just kind of mumbles and stops halfway through almost everything he says. I guess this lends a certain degree of realism to it, but at a certain point it just becomes distracting. They do play this for laughs in one scene where he awkwardly tries to ask Gwen Stacy out on a date, but other than that itâs almost never as charming or interesting as it seems like they thought it should be. Like the rest of the movie, it often just feels like crucial information is being withheld for no reason.
On the other hand, Martin Sheen is really good as Ben. The family dynamic with the three of them is really good, and I like the way Ben is sort of working through having to raise the son of a brilliant scientist as just a regular working class guy. Itâs the only aspect of the focus of this movie on Peter Parkerâs Parents that really pays off, but even that seems like it doesnât really get enough room to fully develop. Like they talk a lot about how both Ben and May work odd hours, but donât say what either of them actually do, I think that would have helped establish more about who they are.
But even though Sally Field is good May never really gets anything to do other than worry and give a speech to Peter in the very last scene of the movie. Itâs about how he should go court Gwen Stacy because sheâs pretty. I guess this makes sense for her in context, but for the audience it is super weird because Gwenâs dadâs dying wish is for Peter not to get her caught up in any Spider-Business. Itâs obvious foreshadowing about how Gwen Stacy is gonna die, but if May is supposed to be the person who is always giving Peter sound advice it just feels too tragic for this kind of movie.
Iâm guessing the overall critique most people have of the movie is how maudlin the whole thing is. I agree with that to a certain extent, but the source material itself is pretty fucking depressing too. Thatâs another thing I think is actually kind of superior about the MCU Spider-Mans, in that they allude to Spider-Manâs tragic past but donât make a big spectacle of reenacting that trauma yet another time. It feels like it is an element of the character that is always there, even if you donât have to like actually watch Peter grieving for everyone who has ever cared for him one after another.
One thing that has grown on me about this movie is how ridiculous Curt Connors is in it. Iâm just sad they didnât go all the way and give him Sauronâs speech about how he doesnât want to cure cancer, he wants to turn people into dinosaurs. Because⌠thatâs basically what his motivation is. Itâs really goofy and wouldnât have been at all out of place in the Raimi trilogy, but in this movie they kind of trick you into thinking it is as Grave and Serious as everything else, until you see like âLIZARD ANTIDOTE FORMULAâ flashing across a computer screen.
On a purely technical level the effects and action sequences also work a bit better. Thereâs nothing particularly brilliant about the way they are shot but I found it less distracting to watch than the CGI stuff in Spider-Mans 1 and 2 (3 is still pretty good in this regard, IMO)
Anyway this is a boring movie that I didnât exactly hate, but still canât honestly recommend anyone seeing it. I think it will just kind of be forgotten or ignored like the Fantastic Four movies, or, probably a bit closer comparison, the Tom Cruise Mummy Movie. Both are sort of over-serious, and too confident in their commitment to establishing a âcinematic universe,â even though there are still a few redeeming qualities there.
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I take back everything I said they passed up on this in favor of some Power Rangers fucking Green Goblin armor
Throw that movie in the trash
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I regret to inform you that âThe Amazing Spider-Man 2â is actually kind of good.
Hear me outâŚ
Itâs definitely not a great movie, or even a good one, but my main takeaway after rewatching it last night is that it accomplishes what ASM1 attempts much more successfully. Sadly, this means there are even more tangential plot staircases to nowhere. But it is just so full of that type of bullshit that it feels more like it is simulating one of the most disorientingly pleasurable aspects of reading superhero comics, which is that every other page youâre confronted with some reference to some event that already happened in another issue, probably one from a totally different series *(SEE FANTASTIC FOUR, ISSUE 461), etc.
(This to me is the only thing that is still interesting about the MCU: This type of thing is no longer just a simulation, but has actually just transferred into the actual films. When there is some offhand reference to another comic book character, that means you have to like⌠go watch that characterâs movie to fully understand it. Some people say this is bad, I disagree!)
Itâs not exactly sad that the ASM series never got to be properly concluded, but it does make this movie a weirder and more precious artifact than the first ASM. There is no âstingerâ after the credits, but the entire closing credits graphic design is full of references to the rest of the Spider-Man rogues gallery, who were clearly meant to be featured in whatever the next movies in the âSony Universe of Marvel Charactersâ were going to be. They were apparently going to attempt to do ASM3 and 4, a Sinister Six movie, and a Black Cat movie⌠instead we are getting Venom, Venom 2, and theoretically a Morbius movie that may never actually get released. Look on my works, despair, etc.
Anyway, I could probably write thousands of more boring words about this movie. But instead I will just conclude with two points that I think are actually interesting:
Thought one: There is a weirdly consistent theme throughout all of the Raimi / Webb (Convinced this name got him the job) movies of Villains Talking To Themselves To Represent Interior Conflict. Osbourne does it, Octavius does it, Brock almost does it (instead, again, he prays to a crucifix for Jesus Christ to kill Spider-Man for him, I cannot stress this enough). Osbourne Jr. hears his dadâs voice in his head. Then, in ASM, the Lizard also has a weird moment where he like talks to himself to psych himself up about Lizardifying New York CityâI canât remember if his rational self actually talks back in that sequence.
But the version of this we get in ASM2 is just likeâŚso patently ridiculous that I feel like it must have been Jamie Foxxâs own idea: When the character is like having his big moment where he decides to Become Evil, instead of having a spoken inner monologue, the soundtrack of the movie has Jamie Foxx as Electro reciting spoken word poetry about how he is going to Become Evil that is like set to the tune of the vaguely dubstep score of that scene. It is one of the most mind boggling cinematic devices I have ever seen, and it is so ridiculous that it actually⌠works?
Is there another example of an actor in a movie providing vocals for the non-diagetic soundtrack of the movie in character ? I canât stop thinking about it. I guess there are probably some late-stage Disney animated musicals where this happens, this is the closest thing I can think to compare it to.
Thought two: After watching these two movies, my conclusion is, weirdly, that the whole conceit of the ASM series would have worked much better as a kind of limited run cable series like the HBO Watchmen thing. The tone throughout these movies is really much closer to Faux-Prestige Cable Genre Show, so a lot of the stuff that is just stupid about both of them probably would have been seen as ground breaking if it happened on Cinemax or whatever. Plus it would have given them room to include all the ridiculous stuff that got cut out of these movies (like Lizard Cops in the first one, and, apparently, a scene in the second one where Harry Osbourne reveals that he has Become Evil by driving drunk*). The chemistry between Peter and Gwen is like actually pretty good. It is very cringey but you can tell the actors genuinely like each other (they dated IRL IIRC), which I never really felt from Maguire/Dunst (the 7 year age gap might have something to do with it???) and a tv show would have given this much more time to breathe. You can never really enjoy it in the movie, because you know sheâs gonna die in like ten minutes.
There is also like a maybe 40 minute sequence in the middle of this movie where there is no action whatsoever, and while I found myself sort of intrigued enough by the plot to not be too bothered by this, I think these movies are supposed to have a lot more spectacle, which may be why this one didnât do as good. But, again, this would have worked as a tv show. They could just add in some filler content where Spider-Man has to beat up some Sewer Thugs on his way to discover his dadâs secret underground research subway car (yes, that happens in this movie too) or whatever just to make sure each episode has some punching in it.
*I was so fucking happy when Harry Osbourne poured himself a glass of bourbon/scotch right before he begged Spider-Man for his Spider-Blood.
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Oh yeah I had seen this before but forgot all about it. It is super cool. I can only assume they made this before they cast Dafoe though, because it makes his extremely Goblinesque face kind of redundant.
Also, I felt the same way as you did about how this is obviously superior to the Power Ranger mask, but on rewatching the movie I noticed that you can actually still see Willem Dafoeâs face through the mouth grate of the robo goblin mask, and that is so fucking funny that it has convinced me that the actual movie design is, in fact, very good.
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I dunno if Iâd call it that disorienting, or at least the way they used to do it, since the little footnotes always accompanied the proper amount of exposition to give a reader the gist of whatâs going on/who somebody is even if they never bother to go read whatever is referenced. They literally made this shit so anybody could jump in any time.
I get this but due to the way my psychology works I always felt like I was missing out by not having read whatever was referenced every time I read a Spider-Man book as a kid, so I never felt like diving in because it always seemed like this big investment.
Standalone stories were always my preference but true standalone stuff was never really available due to the way Marvel always structured their stories across multiple books.
I get it now and have learned how to be comfortable getting into a story thatâs been ongoing since forever because, I mean, the whole worldâs âstoryâ was already running for a long time before I ever even got here and I donât feel like Iâm missing out on anything by not being able to experience all of history from the start or whatever.
Just the way my mind worked as a kid. Itâs the same reason you see people hesitant to play Final Fantasy or whatever because the number after the title intimidates people. The same reason comic book companies got into the awful trend of putting out rehashed versions of every superhero book so there would be a number 1 on the cover and more people would feel like they had a jumping on point even though itâs always been totally unnecessary.
Iâve been meaning to post in this thread because I am a Spider-Fan but Iâve been real busy lately.
I love the movies, even the Andrew Garfield ones. I didnât like the Raimi movies that much when they were new because I wasnât very familiar with the original book and that first movie really went out of its way to feel like those first issues.
I love them now, even Spider-Man 3 (ââŚsooo goodâ), and I agree they have whole shitloads more personality and heart than the MCU movies but I still like Tom Hollandâs Spider-Man a lot even if theyâre doing the dumb thing they did in the comics where they made Peter Parker a Tony Stark/Bruce Wayne type character. Peter Parker should never have infinite resources at his disposal. The core part of the fantasy is that he is just a really smart, resourceful youngster who can make his gadgets and costumes and stuff out of whatever junk he has laying around.
Peter Parker should only ever aspire to be more like MacGyver than anyone else. Having Tony Stark wealth at your fingertips is the Batman fantasy. Making do with what youâve got because youâre at heart still just a scared little kid from Queens is the true Spider-Man fantasy. I think thatâs part of what makes the Miles Morales character so good. He captures the original Spider-Man as teen energy that got everyone hooked on the book in the first place.
I hope Sony makes another animated Spiderverse movie. It was a lot of fun and would be a waste if they only ever did just the one.
Another thing about the Raimi movies that everyoneâs already mentioned is how even though they new so close to the original books they still definitely have a clear authorial voice, like the Tim Burton or Joel Schumacher Batmans. It was from a time when superhero movies were still allowed to be made by one or two individuals who had total creative control. Whoever brought up the point about not being able to tell who directed any of the MCU Spider movies was spot on. I have no idea who directed them other than the decision making committee that runs Marvel.
Sadly the closest analogue to that kind of individualized filmmaking in the present era is maybe the Snyderverse DCU movies. Yikes. And I actually kind of like the Snyder movies. Man of Steel and Batman v Superman for sure, new Justice League was better than the original but should have been two movies instead of one.
But 2002 Spider-Man was, culturally, an event on a par with the 1989 Batman. Sam Raimi and Toby McGuire were that generations Tim Burton and Michael Keaton, and to a similar level of success and overall quality of the final product. Did you know Tim Burton was terrified of fucking up Batman so bad that he played it a lot straighter than he normally did with his movies? So he ended up, like Raimi, falling back on trying to stay ultra faithful to the source material while still letting his actors find their own voice with the characters.
Iâm just rehashing the thread now but yâall are spot on. Now that weâre 20+ years after finding out that someone can in fact make a good Spider-Man movie weâve got them more or less designed by committee and sorely lacking for it, despite some very well choreographed fight sequences (I love the trippy Mysterio sequences in the second MCU Spider-Man and I hope whoever the villian is for the next movie they play to that characterâs strengths in a similar way).
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This is a really good encapsulation of some of my frustration with newer superhero stuff.
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watching the 4K transfer of Raimi spiderman tonight because this thread put me in the mood
still love the pacing and character work, it has an air of such genuine nostalgic unreality about it, the newer ones are unwatchable compared to this
colour grading on HDR rescans tends to vary a ton but I really like what they did here, itâs a little bit oversaturated, like what they did with Casino. I forgot how much Uncle Ben looks like regis philbin. they shouldâve cast regis in this.
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Just remembered that Venom was played by Topher Grace for maybe the first time since that movie came out
I do not remember a single scene he was in
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So I did end up rewatching the Tom Holland Spider-Man movies and I donât think my opinion of them really changed. They are pleasant but forgettable as movies, even though I think as an actor he could theoretically be the best Peter Parker if he was playing him in a movie that was really good. I guess the worst thing I can say about both those movies is I just like⌠donât really feel like I have anything to say about either of them. All of the stuff with Michael Keaton plays well the first time you see Homecoming, but it doesnât hold up as a villain performance in the same way Willem Dafoe as Norman Osbourne does.
I like Homecoming for finding a new twist on the classic movie Spider-man villain gimmick of Bad Dads / Mentors, I feel like they are going for the same thing with Mysterio in Far from Home but to me it only half works. Rewatching that made me feel like Jake Gyllenhal was kind of underutilized. Because of the lost potential, I would actually say Mysterio is the villain I would most like to see return in some form in a sequel, because I feel it would give us another classic unhinged Gyllenhal performance.
When they first came out I appreciated the Tom Holland Spider-Movies for departing from the typical formula that had developed by that point and actually putting Peter Parker into some slightly different situations, but rewatching them I feel like they are sort of missing that anchor. I donât think itâs necessary to keep redoing the Uncle Ben stuff every single time, but it was especially bizarre to me that Far from Home doesnât even reference it in a subtle way.
Itâs just weird that Tony Stark dying doesnât prompt Peter to like reflect on Ben and his parents also disappearing. Like I guess it is thematically consistent with what constantly happens to Spider-man but I think it would have been more impactful if he had actually like talked about that.
Still really curious to see what they are going to do with the third one. Having Alfred Molina come back as some kind of interdimensional Doc Ock is cool in theory, but in Spider-Man 2 the movie ends with him basically recognizing the error of his ways so it will be sort of tragic if they just turn him into a purely evil villain again. I guess if Jamie Foxx returns as Electro very little of the bullshit that happens in ASM2 will actually matter. In fact, I still donât believe Toby Maguire or Andrew Garfield will actually show up in it, but it would be so weird if they did.
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Actually the multiverse angle is so they can have 5 different tony starks and cast the most popular one in the mcu lol
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call this 900 number to tell marvel which tony deserves to live and which will be beaten to death by michael keaton
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I think the MCU Spider-Man movies are intentionally holding back on going into the Uncle Ben/Peterâs parents stuff because they want to save it until they can make it the emotional core of an entire movie. Like theyâre going to do one of these where Peter is dealing with young adult concerns like applying to colleges and dating Mary Jane while fighting the Scorpion or whoever but realizes whatâs really stressing him out is his unresolved emotions. We have yet to see Holland do the unresolved guilt for Benâs murder bit that Tobey Maguire stretched over two and a half movies. Then while heâs confronting that during the second act heâll start asking May about his parents and sheâll reveal they were scientists involved in some super secret SHIELD shit or whatever. Then in the third act his parents can show up in the final scene and itâll be like theyâre going to return to his life and then everyone can speculate for three years about whether or not theyâre his real parents or just robot clones made the Chameleon, like that one story arc from the comics, and surely this would mean he will be the villain in the next movie etc.
Like you can already tell how itâs going to go I guess itâs not surprising they arenât emphasizing it. Maybe they just donât want to do it until they can figure out a way to do it that no ones expecting but also totally fits into the next five movies they have planned.
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This is exhausting and seems accurate
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more avengers shit in my spider-movies 
whyâs everyone complaining about the trailer, this was great:
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New footage confirms itâs a live action spiderverse movie:
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