I like how this thread is so drastically split between discussion of the visual design and canon of the KoF series versus deep mechanical analysis of the new gameplay systems. Both are nice to read about and I’m glad we have both.
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Yeah, again speaking as someone whose entire game writing career is based on a fondness for The King of Fighters, I barely understand what the other side of the conversation is going on about. Which… okay, fine. I’ll just make an analogy between this stuff and 2K1:
I mean. The music in NeoWave is repetitious and shrill, and as with many of its elements maybe not appropriate to KoF, but I definitely see a common DNA between this and much of the team music in 2K1.
And as much as I’ve grown to appreciate the 2K1 music, with NeoWave it’s probably easier to see where this sensibility is going. The dissonance in, say, Geese’s theme is less “OH GOD WHAT” than, huh, that’s sort of interesting.
I get the sense that Papaya mostly focused on the “package” music, as he did in '94 – the intro, in-between music, endings, and what-have-you. There are some commonalities between the '94 intro music and the 2K1 intro.
And I doubt many people have a serious objection to this:
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For those interested, BTW, a thing I tossed together a while back as a sampler for someone – basically all of the KOF music that particularly stands out to me, organized by theme/purpose, then chronologically.
using the 2K1 arranges from the NESTs release is kind of cheating, unless theres an indication that they were produced at that time but not released.
The original sound:
I’d like to know why most of the music in KOF EX: Neo Blood was taken from 2000, but entirely new themes were created for bosses Iori and Geese (it makes more sense in EX2, where the boss is an original character)
My 500th reminder to myself to write up something about The Sunset Sky.
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I’m just talking about the authorial voice here, and trying to trace who was responsible for what.
In terms of entertainment I kind of like the OST anyway, though the AST certainly makes it easier to appreciate the composition.
You’re right that the OST makes more sense of my “OH GOD WHAT” comment.
Since we’re on the topic, it’s also interesting that the AST really doesn’t change the intro and incidental themes that much; it’s mostly the team music that’s gotten a work-over… which makes sense, if the composer breakdown is as I suspect.
I’m dwelling on your comment, and I’m starting to convince myself that I remember something about arrange versions of the themes existing back in 2001-ish, but just never seeing release for some reason. I don’t know if my brain is making that up on me, but it is ringing a bell.
Of course, even if that is the case there’s no saying whether or not those mixes are the same as what eventually came out.
Here’s a thing I’ve thought about frequently, but not really put into words.
So, there are eight Hakkesshu, right? One for each head of Orochi. Four of them are known as the “Heavenly Kings”, and carry overt elemental powers. The others are kind of subservient, and they all have “snake arm” properties.
What’s kind of interesting is that all of the “snake arm” Hakkesshu seem to be rebellious. Leona’s dad (who we can only presume fits the mold) wanted nothing to do with Orochi, which is why Goenitz activated little Leona’s Blood Riot and had her kill him (along with everyone else in town). Yamazaki has no interest at all in Orochi, is too crazy to be susceptible to his power, and is too dangerous for anyone to try to force the issue. And then Mature and Vice, who play along as loyal secretaries for a while, seem to resent Goenitz and in spirit stick with Iori even after he kills them, apparently more concerned about his well-being than about Orochi.
I don’t know what to make of this divide, but it’s interesting how different the two “classes” seem to be, both in abilities and in attitude.
Speaking of Leona… okay, so Heidern adopted her and later used her as an operative for the Orochi plot. Fine, sure. But then he brought Whip into the fold just in time to investigate NESTS. Is there an unseen key Ikari operative from Those From The Past? Is Heidern trying to collect the whole set? To turn one innocent from each evil regime?
This is something I’ve mused about on Twitter: given that Foxy is still alive and therefore the 2001 ending is not entirely canonical to more recent games, is it safe to infer that in current continuity we’re supposed to pretend that Nameless (described as the 9999th Kyo clone, so he really is meant as a full replacement) featured in the 2001 storyline instead of K9999? Given that despite their identical roles and similar move sets Nameless and K9999 have very different personalities and motivations, one would expect that Nameless would have acted differently in the endgame to 2001, allowing Foxy to walk away unharmed…
Okay, I need to wash the dishes and go to bed.
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Famitsu KOF14 stream from this morning.
Today’s stream impressions (I’ll really try and keep them shorter today):
Mai:
- Not much new with Mai, except I’m more confident that her Climax Art has 0+x startup like her NeoMAX in 13 did. Looks like it goes straight to the “pre-launch” cinematic pose as soon as the command completes. This is an important property because if it’s 0+x startup and Mai activates while the opponent is midway through a jump, even a low jump, they can’t escape it. Time will freeze and the dive will complete before the opponent can land and block. An absolutely guaranteed, damaging (but expensive) anti-air hit. Make the opponent jump over a fan and they take it right on the chin. If she can do that with her Climax Art in 14, that’s a big feather in her cap as a 2nd or 3rd character.
DINOSAUR:
- He has an Abel/Daimon-style anti-air grab, but I haven’t seen it hit yet on the stream (halfway thru). His backdash has really long recovery, you don’t want to use it without purpose. His run is still almost Chang-level slow but his normals look good enough to protect his space without needing to move too fast. Very cool Climax Art.
Bandeiras:
Confirmed that you can combo into his charge command grab from c.B > c.A. Knockdown looks nice, startup looks really fast. That lunging knee of his still looks like a great move to call out low pokes like sweeps. His counter still looks solid for its intended purpose (counter jump-ins, looks like it traps high/mid ground pokes too). Wish they’d demo’ed more of his other moves.
Nelson:
- More apparent now that he’s the char for people who really miss Gai from KOF XI. Same move structure, looks like same playstyle as well – get close, pressure with stagger strings, command grab when they get complacent.
Sylvie:
- First time seeing that multi-hit hop kick attack. Could that be plus on block? She has a DP, her anti-air normals look okay if stubby. Seems like she has some okay defensive tools. Her s.CD seems to share same animation as her j.CD, looks like it might go over lows like Shermie’s did. Her high-reaching double fist is a command normal, so maybe she can whiff cancel into it as an anti-air tactic.
Luong:
- Low “Snake Tamer” has short range but maybe it’s better frame advantage? Really cool thing I saw was you can whiff-cancel her step kick (s.CD?) into “Snake Tamer” (Geki?) feint for a footsie bait. Maybe it’s safe in pressure, too, though it doesn’t look like the cancel’s fat enough that she could gain frame advantage a la Yamazaki sand kick > snake cancel. She has that one punch move that reaches pretty high above her head, looks like a good close-range high anti-air.
Kim:
- New observation for the “Kim is still good” thesis: with MAX mode, he can do a 13-style Neri Chagi > activate for just 1 bar. No more super-long Hien Zan > Hishou Kyaku (whiff) loops, but still a good avenue to solid damage and corner carry. His c.B > c.B > s. B > f,f+A > air Hangetsu Zan or super route also still works. Just being able to combo off his overhead for 1 bar will be a huge feather in his cap. Seems very unlikely he won’t be high tier, mid at worst.
Vice:
- She can do 1-bar overhead > activate like Kim can. Without Drive Cancel, it seems like long EX Deicide extensions are dead, but it looks like she could at least do a combo into Mayhem (shoulder tackle) > leaping grab > Overkill for good damage. The main thing she loses from 13 -> 14 is the ability to combo off any air-to-air with EX Deicide, but having cheap routes to activate MAX mode may help her compensate in this department. Also her new “aw, shucks” win screen pose is really dorky. This is Vice we’re talking about, she should be, like, chewing on your 3rd character’s face or something more in-character. Humility doesn’t suit her.
The KOF14 tournament at KSB2016 should be starting at the top of the hour (13 minutes from now). It should be streamed on the twitch channel godsgarden. 128 entrants!
Did K’ already have a plot point where he couldn’t control his powers? His Climax super in KOF14 has him do a short ranbu but he’s interrupted by a sudden pain in his arm. He hunches over, gripping his arm and lowering it towards the ground, and tell his opponent to run away right before he erupts in a giant explosion of fire, which does the bulk of the damage.
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I think so. I remember it being a fairly key detail that he wears that glove to help him reign in his fire powers.
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At the end of 2000 he rips it off despite the pain, as a symbol of how he will not be defined by what NESTS did to him. Presumably thr plan was to meditate forever or something. Then in the 2001 intro he gets word of K9999 and… whoop, on goes thr glove again.
Can’t remember which game has his arm exploding while Maxima tries to walk him away, carefully.
I like that he tells the opponent to run. He’s in the tournament, reluctantly, but he’s not out to actually hurt anyone.
Here’s 2000.
http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/neogeo/b/kof2khero.htm
And here’s '99. This is what we want.
Is that move isolated anywhere I can peer at it?
The tournament has been archived here: https://www.youtube.com/user/KofTheMania/videos
K’s climax somewhere is the 8 hours of footage! The full archive with the hours of casuals at at the stream archive here: https://www.twitch.tv/godsgarden/v/63612103
I completely forgot about the glove thing. I wonder if the emphasis on his power instability in climax move means it may be coming back into play because I don’t recall it ever coming up in the Ash arc.
Also I guess KOF2002 is coming out on PS4 next week and here’s a short interview with the infamous NEO_G. It sounds like SNK is going to be making some action games. http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2016/apr/30/former-capcom-employee-neo_g-charge-fine-tuning-king-fighters-14s-gameplay/
Found it in the Famitsu stream: https://youtu.be/s-9_F1BStGY?t=1422
The climax super itself is just the explosion. I guess what I saw last night was K’s regular ranbu super being canceled into the climax super.
what prompted the old school devs to come back?
Money + nowhere else to go?