SEKIRO: SHADOWS DIE TWICE 💀


#923

For anyone frustrated with but wanting to enjoy Sekiro more I hope you do in your own way, though my most humble and not boastful suggestion is, for a little while, couple sessions:

Turn off the HUD. Remove the meters and counters, items and variables. Get more of a feel for how you move, how the enemies move. Sure you might panic but keep the Healing Gourd by itself in quick select, if you want to mix it up, tool select gives visual traces on what you’re switching to.

That’s the best way I can advise, as someone who this whole game design comes naturally to, to more quickly succeed at what it wants and possibly enjoy? If you don’t there’s no qualitative/quantitative judgement, From upped the ante where more effort of a specific kind is required from the participant.


#924

you’re right, you get two shot & there’s no way to increase your health until you beat 4 bosses that can two shot you

the ogre and the bull are both fights where you have to dodge around and wait for safe opportunities to land a couple attacks then back off because literally nothing else works on them. i struggled with them until i realized parrying and stamina damage were pointless started fighting them like bloodborne bosses

& i still disagree that stuff like mikiri counters (which frequently result in me dodging into the tip of a spear because the collision half works) and jumping sweeps are obvious when you can easily miss the bosses that are supposed to teach them


#925

i don’t know how far in you are but in general i think the game is real generous about giving plenty of downtime between little boss rushy clusters


#926

Hmm, I wouldn’t put it that strongly. I’d say a keep-distance punishing style will work fine some of the time and not so much other of the time. One thing From does very well is encourage a different playstyle on a boss-by-boss/area-by-area basis, and some of them are in fact well-suited or at least amenable to it. The Chained Ogre for one.

These ambiguous zones where a strategy kinda-sorta-works are the most prone to train players into painstakingly optimizing a style into a local maximum (because they observe that there is a potential to succeed by executing it better). I’d say Sekiro can cause that due to tradeoffs with other game design virtues it’s going for (meaningful within-game variety, and favoring soft counters rather than hard counters).


#927

right now i’m at the castle, so i have a choice between dying to a guy in a well, dying to some spear guy, dying to a general surrounded by guards, or dying to flying ninjas. i guess the last option isn’t a boss!

i guess i’m just extrapolating from the pace so far and assuming it’s going to ramp up. i can see why they would keep the same pace tho!


#928

Hanbei is right there and you literally get a pop up telling you to go talk to him so that he can teach you these things.


#929

when they first tell you to talk to him he has 3 tutorials about basic actions. i didn’t do them because i already learned those from the first stage — i assumed they were refreshers and moved on.

i didn’t run into a “countering sweeps with a jump kick” prompt until i stumbled on a Big Katana miniboss that i’d accidentally skipped before. i was going back thru the area in case there were upgrades i’d missed because i wasn’t making any progress on the ogre or juzou

i’m fucking sick of people telling me my experiences with this game didn’t happen


#930

conversely, i have never beaten a Souls game. not particularly good at them. i always hit difficulty walls and bounce off out of despair, or just not wanting to deal with hrs and hrs of repeated crushing failures.

but i took to sekiro like a duck in water. ogre was pitifully easy actually. genichiro was not that bad either. in my experience.

so, like, given both of our experiences put together, there’s probably something to the “this isnt a souls game” argument.


#931

yeah i was actually thinking of right around that point where i had like five or six fights in front of me and it felt like kind of a marathon, but then after that i didn’t have another pressing boss fight for many hours

obviously ymmv re: where you go next and shit but yeah


#932

All Souls games are secretly Punch-Out


#933

All Souls games are wrestling games where you can bash your opponent with a metal folding chair while the referee isn’t looking


#934

They’re definitely entirely different games, and aren’t really comparable. In one the dodge is good, in the other the dodge is bad, in one you can play in many ways and explore mechanics, in the other the game very much wants you to play one way and not explore mechanics so much as get used to them. Encounters progress and mechanics are much more smoothly aligned in one, they are very unevenly distributed and thrown into your face in the other, essentially acting as tests (the last boss really being a perfect example). The camera’s bad in both, so that’s consistent at least.

The stuff that’s strangest to me about Sekiro is mostly how they threw out the good ideas from previous games. From has a habit of doing this, for reasons I don’t really understand (Vials in Bloodborne, Spirit Emblems in Sekiro).


#935

whose idea was it to label the genre “soulslike” and not “dungeon brawler”


#936

Except when it isn’t, of course

I only managed to beat the Owl when I worked out he has a bunch of attacks you can dodge into, Souls style, get straight behind him and tap him up some


#937

I bought this game. Someone tried to cheat me out of a buncha money I don’t have so I did the sensible thing and ran out and blew the last of my cash on a video game. I wanted Super Robot Wars T but it turns out they don’t sell that at Gamestop. Have you been in one of those things lately? Nowadays they’re like Spencers Gifts but with a few racks devoted to $3 copies of FIFA 2015. Not many games up in there. But they did have this, and I love it. I thought it would be too stressful for me in my current state but there’s so much going on I never have time to think about troubles. I bet if I’d gotten Super Robot Wars I woulda had so much time to think about troubles, what with all the animations and unit movement and stat placement and whatnot.

Think I made the right choice.

I was initially trying to marathon this thing so I could sell it ASAP but now I’m marathoning it cuz I just fucking love it. All I’ve done since Saturday is work and play this and that’s a good balance, to me. I’ll seriously miss it when I’m finished. No, I won’t play NG+. Even though I want to. This is a Danger Game.

danger%20game

Replace “dota” with “sekiro” ok.

I came in here to post this. Sekiro’s rhythm is the closest I’ve seen to a 3D Punch-Out.

This dawned on my yesterday when I finally realized I should be running a whole lot more in combat. Yes, dodging and parrying and jumping and poking to provoke counterattacks are key but running is too as it makes some fights way easier and it should have been covered in the fucking tutorial. I didn’t know you could do it until I was pretty deep into the game! It was one of the first things I tried and it didn’t work! The tutorial guy never mentions it! I just saw it during a loading screen and went “what”.

I had a hard time adjusting to Dark Souls and Bloodborne when they came out. When I heard folks were struggling with this I figured it was a similar deal. But I didn’t have much of an issue with Sekiro’s very early game. I did hit a wall later though. My experience was pretty similar to Physical’s and there was a point where I was like “Holy shit I understand why folks would not want to put up with this bullshit.” But now I have a handle on things and I can actually pinpoint all the moments where I learned something new and overcame an obstacle and I feel a little bit of pride over it so I think this is a masterpiece.

I just wish I’d gotten a handle on things a little earlier. I made some wrong assumptions or learned the wrong lessons and while I think the tutorial dude is fine there should be a fucking manual. Just put all those tooltips in a fucking manual.

Also yeah the camera often sucks but the fact that these games still drop inputs blows my fucking mind. I’m not the only one who experiences this, right?


#938

Yeah, I talked about this earlier in the thread. The dodge is a much more situational tool in Sekiro, rather than a go to for defense. It’s used mostly for big downward swings, to get behind or to the side of the boss, which allows you to take one or two swings after their attack. The go to defensive option in Sekiro however is deflecting, combined with running (and in most cases, running is typically more advantageous than dodging as it actually will get you fully behind your enemy and allow you to take more swings than if you were to just dodge - discovered that fairly recently after watching some speedruns). Jumping’s also typically better than dodging if you’re moving backwards as it allows you to mid-air deflect (which can block thrusts) and avoids sweeps, as well as gives better distance.

Dodging is really best for the Mikiri Counter. The more I play, the more it feels like that is its primary purpose.


#939

My first half through I felt this happened on a handful of occasions and reminded me of some seriously dropped R2 pulls in Dark Souls, stamina available in the middle of some crucial response and suddenly I’m standing still getting wrecked - my mind was already on where I was supposed to have landed it!

But the past 40 hrs I haven’t experienced it again. If it’s present probably a much, much smaller degree.


#940

the i-frames on dodge are a bit tricky to feel out but on my NG+2 I’ve actually started dodging through attacks more often just because the timing window is sometimes better than deflecting.


#941

Lord let me come in to stir the hornets nest for not liking a From game. I think I hate this game.

I hate the mook battles
I especially hate group mook battles
I hate having to deal with mooks while fighting bosses
The Snake was me yelling at my video game that I have played too many video games already.
I hate how unclear the game is about what a is a wall and what is a barrier.
I think the music is real boring typical AAA orchestra but maybe there is also a take flute.

I appreciate everyone helping me but I am also fed up with the vague bullshit. When you add in the barrier that I am playing it in Japanese and the game is entirely in medieval Japanese. I am pretty good at Japanese but that doesn’t mean I am familar with Sengoku era military jargon or the dialect of a courtesan. I can’t keep track of the 15 different ways and status’s they refer to the prince! Or whatever haircut boy is. Kudos on the localizers if y’all can follow the plot I have an easier time with Judge Eyes’s legal and yakuza jargon.

I suspected I wasn’t going to like this and I don’t like being right.


#942

I think the input buffer on certain moves is smaller than it usually is; the deathblow out of a parry is noticeably wonky, probably because the sync action setting it up isn’t set up properly, and attacking out of jump seems to accept input much later than similar animations.

Because they don’t let you cancel out of attacks as generously as western action games, they need to keep the input buffers relatively short to avoid false confirmation from mashing to start the prior attack, pushing them into these situations where the window isn’t ready for input the player intended.