Nietzsche grew up a slavish devotee of wagner. Later he learned that wagner was a bit of a nutbag, and, being a bit of a nutbag himself, swore an eternal grudge against his former idol
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I don’t understand what’s being said here, but I would like to.
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this is such a Theodor Adorno mood
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which parts in particular are you struggling with? i can try to explain at least my reading of it
this is totally spoilers for Immortality lol
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Great discussion but really A+ thread title. Bravo to whoever came up with it.
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Let me try to formulate what I think Nietzsche is saying first and then I’ll take a crack at Adorno.
Nietzsche is saying that people feel a profound sense of satisfaction and fulfillment from witnessing cruelty. Romans liked watching people kill each other, Christians like thinking of the Passion (I mean, wow, the connotations of that word), people enjoy watching tragic dramas, operas, movies, etc.
He goes on to say that people also derive some sort of fulfillment from their own suffering. Destroying one’s ego or undergoing penance are seen as some of the highest acts.
Okay, so Adorno is continuing from Nietzsche, right? So everything that Nietzsche says is the foundation for what he’s about to say, but they’re talking about different things. “Cruelty becomes imagination: Something is excised from the living.” Art takes from real experience and creates something different and autonomous. This taking from experience is cruel and violent on its own. The translator uses the word “humane” later and I read it as meaning both “less cruel” and “more human-like.” I don’t know what the “ritual of the domination of nature that lives on in a play” is, but I guess it’s describing how plays are an artificialization of nature. Successful art is just as ambiguous as nature. I’m losing meaning especially trying to read these final three sentences or so.
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I’m not gonna lie, I started enjoying and appreciating the game so much more once I learned you could do this. it’s still a top-tier strat in the sequel, too.
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what’s nietzsche gotta say about that, huh?
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Nietzsche also clearly wanted to pull the cart, which is why naghty dog should make a kart racer
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Glad to be of service! 
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It would make some amount of sense as a reference to theater, but there is no “a” before “play” so the image that comes to my mind is a child playing with dolls, brusquely manipulating them to give them life.
As for the last three sentences, the image that comes to my mind is of an Inuit artist making a rock sculpture of a dancing bear. Rock is a very resistant material and, with traditional Inuit tools, working with the grain is central. The distinctive liveliness of each bear emerges out of the dialectic between the will of the artist and the will of the material.
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This angle is interesting and makes sense. An artist takes their material from nature and squishes it into a different form, destroying its natural existence. Much like when Joel takes a bottle that was used for drinking and distorts it into a killing device. Such cruelty.
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slave morality is when you pick up all the hidden audiologs
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