it feels really nice, fundamentally – like, standing around doing combos is extremely satisfying – but everything they’ve done since clover became platinum has has dodge mechanics that are a bit too binary at the expense of everything else. DMC3 and God Hand still come by their challenge more compellingly.
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Yes, this is the problem of the Bayo-dodge (I think we can just safely call it that, as that’s the game Platinum really brought it on with, and they keep using it to varying degrees - most satisfyingly for me in TD). It is just a timing thing, and then you get out of jail free, and the timing is honestly pretty generous.
DMC3 had two different dodges that sorta were like this, but were different enough that it still felt much more challenging. You had the lock-on dodge from DMC1 (locked on, sideways direction + triangle (I think, it’s been awhile)) that gave you a pretty good window of invulnerability, but was somewhat difficult to pull off and could result in some massive punishment if you screwed it up, as it left you close to the enemy in most circumstances, but this was also a boon for combat. Then you also had the Trickster dodge, which had much more invulnerability, as I recall, but due to how it work often left you with some distance to make up on the enemy. Anyone who has played DMC3 more recently, feel free to correct me on that.
The Bayo-dodge is like a combination of the generous window with the DMC1 dodge, plus then it adds slow motion to the end in a lot of their games (Bayo, but also TD), making it even more generous and almost necessary in a lot of circumstances. Nier2 does not do the slow mo that I have seen yet, but the dodge window is pretty generous, and does lead into a launcher (something else that was more difficult in DMC, and even in Bayo) that I haven’t had time to figure out how to reliably abuse.
All that being said, given the action-RPG nature of the game, this simplified system feels pretty good in game.
I have been wondering how the loops are in relation to the difficulty. Like DMC/Bayo/TD all were built to play through on normal, then loop up to higher difficulties for the next playthrough. It would be neat if they tied this into the looping Taro story somehow, but it isn’t sounding (from people in this thread who have made it to Loop 2) like they did.
I don’t think you can do the launcher as a standard move - it’s there as the dodge counter specifically. much like transformers too, you can get a chip that gives you the counter attack/defense mechanic from MGR
though if you haven’t tried, if you dodge and then press R1 for a counter, your lil buddy will shoot a high-damage missile
Well yeah, but sometimes when I do the “you get three holograms” dodge, she pulls out the launcher, while at other times not, and It’s not always clear what is going to cause it. It might just be finnicky. It’s also annoying when she does it for enemies that can’t be launched.
Didn’t know about the R1 dodge, but that echoes even more that this is the TD combat system, as you could bayo-dodge, slow mo, and then start shooting and basically do a max payne shoot dodge in TD (this was actually an easy way to abuse the scoring system for better ranks, because headshots).
as far as I can tell dodge followed by square is always launcher and dodge followed by R1 is always rockets
In the demo there actually is a manual launcher move that I find trickier than a DMC launcher. If you press jump and piano in (think before she reaches half of her jump height) triangle/heavy weapon you’ll do a shoryuken style attack. With the heavier sword you twirled it like a tornado on the way up. With the lighter sword you do a more simple upwards slash. It’s a key tool when trying to get a little extra height to sequence break. I think you can also do a triangle/heavy follow up after a just evade for a wider follow up or it might’ve just been launcher for that weapon too.
In regards to DMC, I think it was left/right triangle to dodge in DMC 1 since that was the jump button in that game. DMC3 made it X since that was the jump button. That dodge was more of a roll while Trickster was more of a dash. Those were the terms I used to differentiate them.
Yeah, that’s right. DMC3 bumped to X because triangle became the Style button. And you are right about the roll/dash differences as well.
You could probably change it in settings but I rolled with triangle as melee and circle as style button with square as gun.
What I’ve discovered about the way the game controls is
r1 + x at the exact same time (while you’re already in the air) does a move where 2B grabs her bit and throws herself forward. you can do this after a double jump and dash, extending your time in the air further. it also damages enemies if they get hit at the beginning.
if you dodge and press [ ] it’s always the launcher, and if you dodge and press /\ it’s always a kind of space clearing forward lunge
I’ll mess around with it when I get home tonight, but something felt off about it yesterday, but that sounds right.
Died three times in the first part at the final boss. Having to start the whole thing over is some real bullshit. No save option in the first hour is pretty indefensible in my opinion
I suddenly feel lucky that both of my hard mode attempts were ended by the very first saw boss because I was failing to heal fully between taking damage
(I did play the demo twice on hard after losing to the final boss the first time though. basically that opener is questionable.)
That’s kinda been a thing in these type of action games since DMC1, wherein there is an opening that is hard enough to make people question their difficulty setting, and adjust accordingly, but yeah, the lack of saves is BAAAAD.
Other combat things I like - you can switch weapons mid combo and extend the length of your combo, and I like that how many little chips there are that can really change the way you play the game.
it seems like you hafta go out of your way to really upgrade your pod a lot, but its cool you can get multiple different types of them and set up special attacks accordingly
Thanks for stating this or someone else did earlier in the thread. After playing for 40 hours this (and equipping a movement chipset) was needed to get some very out of the way items.
I just got ending A at around 12 hours but I burned a lot of time doing every side quest I could activate and find. I feel like a couple of +3 chips really allowed me to just plow through much of the later game combat. Healing items were also super cheap!
This repetitive human/machine/android identity conflict will have some new layers peeled back soon I’m sure…?
the dmc side dodge is Very Bad (finicky, slow/tons of recovery frames, not enough freedom of movement) and not worth the risk even in the best of circumstances.
trickster dodge is okay but is more about mobility, closing space between enemies, being flashy, but there isn’t really much reason to give up your style button for it when the best dodge in both games is universal and the easiest to do:
just vertical jump. it has iframes on the way up, is cancelable into whatever attack, and you can just air hike (double jump) to readjust your positioning wherever you want once you’re in the air.
anyway about nier 2,
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yes. quoting because everyone should know
Man, did we even play the same game? Because that is basically the way I beat so much of DMC3. Like damn, I used that so much it just became second nature. Also it was hilarious in the famous Gamespot review panning 3 that it was really obvious that the reviewer hadn’t bothered to learn how to use it. Like he complained about never beating the boss of the second stage, and that side dodge was all you needed to beat him easily.
no, we didn’t
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