so when the recent Sonic Forces media came out I thought about how overall I kind of like Generations better than any of the megadrive sonic games, which is remarkable because all of the other 3D sonics are generally terrible and all of the megadrive ones are basically good, but they all have individual flaws (mostly very inconsistent level design) that makes them not that much fun to play through now.
EXCEPT when you consider S&K independently from Sonic 3 rather than just making “S3&K” the canonical fourth sonic game it’s actually pretty faultless?
it’s not as audiovisually exciting or as complex as Sonic CD, nor as elegant as the better parts of Sonic 1, nor does it start as memorably as Sonic 2, and the levels aren’t as theoretically well-distinguished and interesting as in Sonic 3, but:
it doesn’t have any water levels that ruin the pacing
it has consistently good special stages that aren’t too cheap
the levels all have interesting branching paths
the final zones are challenging and climactic
you can be super sonic and he doesn’t consistently break the game
it has fun diegetic storytelling
is there a big following for “S&K on its own”? I think if I had to rank em I’d go:
S3 has Carnival Night Zone, which is the video game equivalent of a war crime. S&K’s worst level, Sandopolis, edges it out only slightly because it doesn’t turn into a water level in the second act, and lacks those hateful, non-intuitive spinning cylinders. Both are overlong slogs.
S&K has that excellent climax of everything from Lava Reef to the end – Launch Base beats Death Egg but Hidden Palace -> Sky Sanctuary -> Death Egg beats Launch Base easily (and then there’s that gimmicky but cool Super Sonic bonus boss).
However, Sonic 3 has better music stings and you can play as Tails in it so it’s clearly the winner here.
yeah, I would probably trade sandopolis for hydropolis, hydropolis isn’t bad so much as it’s surrounded by a bunch of other overlong too-big areas that always seem to be teasing better paths than the one you’re on. sandopolis isn’t awful considering.
Sonic 3 (and 2) definitely have better music which is why it feels kind of lame to give the nod to S&K, but mostly I’m just gratified to be able to give it the nod over CD, because while CD technically has the most interesting level design in the series it also has:
no knuckles or tails or super sonic
special stages that are just “shitty mario kart”
vastly different expectations of playing well/comprehensively than most of the rest of the series which I’m seldom in the mood for
plus it was only on the sega CD, which made it much less accessible (both at the time and in the early aughts when you could emulate the megadrive on the dreamcast or the DS).
I admittedly have way more personal affection for emerald hill + chemical plant than for the rest of the series combined, but sonic 2 is way too long and the special stages and the later levels are not good.
and sonic 1 has spring yard and star light which make a strong case for the spindash having had an overall negative impact on the rest of the series but otherwise isn’t that much fun to play from start to finish
mushroom hill and flying battery are also just lowkey very strong, on the one hand S&K is kind of the process of elimination choice but on the other it effectively refines a lot of earlier designs
sandopolis also has that janky gunstar heroes reject miniboss
I also like that after S3 shipped with sram, S&K played alone was a return to a game that was meant to be played from start to finish (and is actually the right length for it)
plus playing as knuckles is actually supported by the levels and not just brokenfun like playing as tails
just imagine how you would feel if the stage order in the final game was the same as on the stage select screen and you get to go straight into the Labyrinth Zone from Green Hill
Sonic 2 and 3 suffer from pushing more “setpiece”/“cool” level design rather than designing fun spaces with occasional gimmicks like 1 and CD trade in (2 is in that weird spot where they were like “yes, levels, but also cool shit!”)(like, the snowboard at the start of Icecap is cool but literally adds nothing)(this is also why Freedom Planet is good but it’s also not really a Sonic game when we get down to it so )(parenthetical) and 3 is a bit overly long, seeing as stages in 1, 2 and CD can all be done in that 30-120 second timeframe
hell, I just played through 1 and Marble Zone was only 6 minutes of my time and that’s with taking the first two acts slow so I could protect the rings and hit the special stages after each act
if we’re really going to complain about level design in a Sonic game, well, we have the first 3D cycle and some of the latter 2D stuff to really tear into (at least Rush understood that if you’re going to do dumb design and make the game about running right as fast as possible you should also add to Sonic’s moveset to make him go even faster; it’s probably no coincidence that the stuff Dimps put into Rush became part of the good 3D games. stuff like going “fuck water, Imma run real fast over it”)
(to be honest I should actively try to avoid derailing Sonic threads because it’s been 25 years and I still don’t understand Sonic just like I don’t understand arcade Sega; it moves so fast and is so beautiful and I think getting better comes through lessening failure incidents and not, you know, not failing in the first place)
(because seriously I can’t see that stuff Sonic, you’re going too fast)
(this is probably why I’ve tried to solve ‘go fast platformer’ like three times because Sonic is fun but man and I don’t understand it well)
as someone who consistently struggles to enjoy sonic games, this is all I care about
I think it’s arguable whether or not it’s a Sonic game (like are we being literal or philosophical), but even if it isn’t, it’s a Treasure-esque game, which is a better use of player time to begin with.
guys I consider my fav sonic to be freedom planet and my favorite mega man to be 4 minus infinity, what does this say
the game is not about going fast. fast is not Sonic’s natural state. fast is achieved through mastery of the physics and levels. it is a platformer in which you can go fast by being good through mechanics placed deliberately in the game
this is also why the spin dash is arguably a fucked up thing to add to Sonic’s repertoire but that’s a whole 'nother discussion
yes
it’s a Sonic game for most of the game when you’re playing as Lilac or Carol and it looks like the kind of insane OC furry fantasy Sonic fandom likes to devolve into, but it also has Milla and a bunch of extra moves and it’s really more like Rocket Knight Adventures (the first one, I don’t talk 'bout no Sparkster) than anything Treasure ever did but now I’m just being a pedantic ass
I feel like I should preface further discussion by throwing out there that I probably like Marvel Land the best on the Genesis
But it’s extremely easy to do this early, and the game feels like molasses unless you’re in this state, so it feels like it’s not-functional when I trip, then again, again.
I believe this line that that’s the intent but I don’t think the game teaches this, affords this well except through bare memorization, which the multilayered level designs (awesome at secrets and forgiveness as they are) frustrate, nor handles the expected failure state and slow pace of Sonic 3 well. I am confused!
I like Sonic for its brilliantly shimmering style and that it crams a ton of innovations in scaling between player skill in (the ring health system, the insanely vertical levels, later the casual ‘why not fly?’ character, the approachability of the poppy design)
you should sit down and give 2 some time, it’s shorter and more platform-y than 3 while also being more about flow and with less adherence to needing to be about platforming than 1 and it still has the bits where level knowledge is greatly rewarded (or:let’s be frank, we all use the skips in Wing Fortress because fuck that zone)
while I still disagree, there’s also the caveat that I’ve been beating Sonic 1 for 26 years so i’m probably too far gone in my own stupid world of “but I already know the levels!”
Yeah, 2 is my favorite because it’s smooth and rockin’. and nothing beats Chemical Plant (up until the water platforms, ugh). The traditional stop-and-go platformer in 3/S&K feels like the game trying to something it’s not.
But people who really like Sonic really dig 3 so there’s something I don’t understand.
I am feeling Astromech. I never owned a Genesis and only played the Sonics in tiny bites at my friends’ houses, and, especially as a child, found it beautiful but incomprehensible. Mario World I could handle. Sonic, not so much.
Coincidentally, today i stumbled across this great Sonic analysis series by @morkitten on twitter. She does a really great job of laying out the design philosophy behind the games (which is def not always well signaled by the games themselves) as well as where it falls down
When i was watching the Sonic & Chuckles livestream a few weeks ago, it hit me how much being a fan of this series relies on you being OK with it being mostly crap. Thinking about it, i guess i understand “trashy” now.
)(parenthetical) and 3 is a bit overly long, seeing as stages in 1, 2 and CD can all be done in that 30-120 second timeframe