Like the problem though is that random rolls only make that percentage go up, because that means each gun counts as unique. For the sake of argument, lets say there are 20 different perks a gun can get 2 of, and only three of those are viable useful shit. That leads to a 98.5% of those guns being plain not worth using. Even if we say only 10% of the guns in D2 are worth using, that’s still a way better ratio than 1.5% (note, these numbers are made up for illustration).
I guess I fail to see what the bigger issues people really want addressed are. People say it isn’t lack of content, but if it isn’t that, then what is it? From a PvP side, I can see a lot of issues definitely (like the lack of mode selection and such is BS), but on the PvE side, what is the issue if not “content”?
i’m sure random rolls could be great but people totally romanticise the d1 incarnation where there was a single definitive roll for each weapon and anything less was trash
Yeah, for a random roll system to be at all worthwhile, there can’t be such clear cut winners as there were in d1, and Bungie (based on d1) are not good at that.
I feel like I’ve argued this to death so I won’t venture back into that debate, but when I was thinking about this today, I did find it amusing that probably the weapons people have most fond memories of from D1 were either vendor rolls or weapons that had fixed rolls (VoG weapons, exotics).
I don’t understand why they made all elemental weapons strong against all shields and also not visibly weak against non-shields. It trivializes shielded enemies which have always been my favorite part of Bungie game design.
you keep posting to say you don’t know why anyone would want this in response to people saying why they would want this.
i don’t think getting a gun that was designed to be bad while you wait for a gun that was designed to be good is the same situation as getting a gun that happens to be bad because you didn’t get one that meets your criteria yet. the difference is that you ultimately have more agency over what constitutes a valuable asset to your arsenal and to what end.
yes that agency is strained by dice rolls and you don’t want to have to deal with that under any circumstances. yes.
This still doesn’t address the ratio problem (as I talked about) or the romanticizing of D1s loot as @idiot (and Sakurina) talks about above. There still was a god roll in D1 and a whole lot of not good enough, so yeah.
And no one is really talking about why they want to back, aside from saying they want it back so…? Like what would this fix about D2 aside for “gives you more reason to grind for even lower chances of decent results”? Like if we accept Destiny as having some degree of gachapon shit in it, why should we clamor for worse odds on it?
Scarcity gives things value, and in loot games, people want their highs to feel significant otherwise what is the point.
It’s fine if Bungie wants to move away from being a loot game, but you can’t have Cayde-6 brag about how much loot we’ll be getting in the trailer of the game and then act surprised when people complain about your loot system not being as rewarding as the old game.
an approach to builds that’s more inclusive of varying levels of player commitment
the rarity isn’t supposed to just be a means of gatekeeping the less obsessive, it’s supposed to actually maintain some sense of scarcity because not everybody having a thing is part of the sense of ownership over the things you do have. destiny already had a huge problem with: a.) player/playstyle individuation/expression, b.) presenting material challenging enough to inspire meaningful application of specialization; this is probably not the area it needed smoothed out beyond recognition
the ratio of junk to decent stuff is a problem because there’s a limited pool of options to draw from vying for relevancy; random rolls don’t exacerbate the issue, they make it irrelevant. it’s not that there’s stuff you don’t want to use, it’s that it’s always the same stuff you’ll never want to use because it’s hardcoded into the game to be useless so the loot factor is unrewarding on top of all the other problems with loot.
“god rolls”:
that the potential of getting some mythical exact thing was technically still there (even if prohibitively so) allowed for vastly more possibility space without changing the fact that it’s destiny so 99% of everything was Perfectly Fine to use in 99% of situations anyway. even having played D1 for whatever hideous amount of time i don’t recall active pursuit of a specific Perfect Roll on gear attributes because why would you even care unless you were in the top .01% of dead seriousness about pvp or raid optimization?
you can get all but the most obsessively tuned perks of the game without grinding (and imo it’s more satisfying to set your own build parameters to work within than constantly chasing the meta anyway) so why not accommodate folks who do care especially since granularity of options still ultimately positively affects even the folks who spend less time with the game.
there’s nothing to address about people romanticizing D1 because obviously we all agree that any model for attempting to improve D2 would include attempting to improve D1 as well. i don’t agree with the god roll / trash dichotomy in most practical application anyway
tbh i’m not even personally dying on the hill that More Loot Is Better but a bunch posts and videos in this thread i may or may not agree with still at least exist that attempted to include nuance beyond “well obviously i just love 2 grind”
I guess I just don’t get it because I always played D1 and definitely D2 as a Bungie game with a loot problem, and I guess there were a lot of people who played it as a loot game that happened to be made by Bungie. So at least in regards to the loot problem, D2 actually fixed a lot of that for me, but clearly not for the other set. IDK.
you keep acting like it’s somehow misguided that people went into an mmo with some degree of expectations tied to it having a different model for feedback loops than halo would
definitely the best things about destiny are the ways in which it’s halo (it’s just ok at being halo), but ideally it would be at least as good at being destiny as it is at being halo. there’s no reason for it to bother you that there are people who want to play the game longer than you and in ways that would never force you to play it any longer than you already want to
also you don’t have to be a grind lord to think d2’s exotics are wack and i’m not sure anything is more relevant to it working as a halo (inspired action verbs + gunfeel) or an mmo (specialization + investment reward)
I mean, I played it for 140 hours or so. I just don’t know how anyone wants even more than that I guess. But whatever; people seem to want to be angry at a thing I’m not angry at, so they can keep doing that I guess.
yeah, the current exotics/legendary situation is definitely boring. But I think if they added rolls in, this would actually make it worse unless they redesigned the entire weapon catalog and that ain’t happening. But it would be nice if they would actually have exotics that were more interesting or weird.
yeah my vanilla d1 experience of getting nothing from vault for ~ ten runs straight (and y’all know i’m not exaggerating here) essentially being locked out of hard mode because of that has put me firmly on the side of ‘actually give people stuff every time they finish a raid encounter’
