Football Manager: The Best Strategy RPG You've Never Played

Yeah in lower leagues definitely raid the youth setup and get anybody who looks like they might be able to do a job up to the senior squad.

Another important thing to keep in mind with FM is that the circle that goes from a sliver of red to full bright green, that only represents the familiarity that the player has with historically playing in that position/history training in that position. If the player has the attributes to do well in the position/role, they will likely do well there, even if it’s not a position/role that they’re familiar with. I have played players at a sliver of red at the highest levels of the game and it’s worked out great. So likely you have some CMs and potentially some STs that can play as AMCs if called upon.

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Ah, I can’t believe I didn’t realise that! I assumed the red meant they wouldn’t be effective there. Although I always thought it didn’t make sense for the game to tell you where they couldn’t play. Another thing the game doesn’t communicate clearly enough for my liking.

I had a similar issue regarding lack of players in certain postions. I had a ton of wingers, but switched to a narrow formation, meaning I couldn’t really use any of them.

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yeah I’ve definitely had success putting people who haven’t played in that specific position into those roles but unfortunately because i’m starting off at like, lowest english football division no one is very good at anything

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While watching a Bundesliga match today I had an idea for a little thought experiment and hopefully some of the other posters here who’ve been posting in the thread will indulge me in this. The match in question was Borussia Dortumnd at Armenia Bielefeld. One of my favorite things about sports is the narratives that unspool out from just about anything regarding them if you start following the threads. Here, just the names of the teams, if you’re reasonably familiar with the German leagues and their history, give you a story. Dortmund are considered a title contender, although doubtlessly less so than the reigning champions, Bayern Munich. Bielefeld, although they’ve been in the Bundesliga in the recent past, are a “promoted” club, meaning that they played last season in the 2.Bundesliga, the division below, and did well enough that they were moved up to the top division in Germany.

Now, moving on straight to formations, the broadcast graphics for Dortmund have them lining up like so:

Now, there’s a number of ways that you could break down this formation; rather than get too deep in the weeds here, we will say that this is a fairly classic 4-2-3-1 – a ‘flat’ back four consisting of two central defenders and one fullback on either flank, two generally holding midfielders in the center, a trio of attacking players, two wide, one central, and finally, a striker playing alone up top.

As for Bielefeld, their formation, as presented in the broadcast graphics, is as follows:

This is usually described as a 3-4-3 formation, although I suspect, and going off the top of my head, that Football Manager would term this formation a 3-2-2-2-1 Wide, with the ‘Wide’ indicating that the final “2” is two wide players, rather than two centrally-placed attacking midfielders. This kind of 3-defender based formation was the global standard around the early 90s, then fell into disuse for many years until making a recent comeback, being re-popularized largely by the Italian coach Antonio Conte, who used it first in Italy, and then in England with Chelsea, who won the 2017 English Premier League using it as their primary approach.

I would be interested what @Buckets_Aplenty and @spacetown (as well as anybody else who’s interested) think about the matchups between these two formations would be like – what would you expect to play out, especially in terms of space created and controlled, considering the relative stature of the two teams?

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In FM, the bielefeld formation is one of the recommended ones to play counter attack. They’d maybe start out a bit more defensive, with the wing backs sitting a bit deeper, looking to attack on the break. If they got further into the game and hadn’t conceded or if they scored, they might push up a bit more with the wing backs. The midfielders would probably just be sitting, moving the ball on and keeping an eye on the dortmund midfield. You’d probably need the wingers to be inside forwards or similar, otherwise the wingbacks won’t have any space to work with, assuming the wingbacks are going to be attacking. They definitely wouldn’t have much possession.

Dortmund are an attacking team in general. They’ve got a lot of young attacking players. I haven’t seen them play recently, so I don’t know how much of the gegenpress style they’ve retained. Back 3 makes it tough for a single striker, but if the wingers can get behind the wing backs, that should pull the defenders out to cover. Then the AM would have space to run into and cause some trouble. Maybe I’d expect bielefeld to be camped in their own half a lot, so the defenders would be relied on to hold the ball more often, so they could get pressed effectively by a mobile team like Dortmund.

In FM, this feels like a game where if I was bielefeld, I’d lose 1-0 in the last few minutes or if I was Dortmund, it would 0-0 after I had 30 shots, but like 5 on target.

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Thanks to @Buckets_Aplenty for sharing your take and @spacetown I hope that I wasn’t too rude by tagging you (and here I go again).

I thought it was interesting to think about these two formations and how they would interact because thinking about space is the heart of football tactics, and while the title of this thread is doubtless hyperbole designed to angry up the blood, this is something FM has in common with the SRPG genre. In both, you have a strictly designed space and at least two opposed sides, each different in formation and abilities, with the goal being using your knowledge of other side to control zones of influence and leverage that to achieve your goal.

Bielefeld’s goal, in this case, was not to lose. The league season is long and the goal for a promoted team is always to stay up, so any points will do, even if it is only the single one awarded for a tie. Yes, a win would be quite welcome; playing a top team as a minnow means that the main concern is getting anything out of the game if possible.

Looking at the matchup of the lineups as set out, there is a single area that causes the alarm bells to go off:

Dortmund having a natural overload in the middle of the pitch would mean that they would constantly have a free man ready to receive a pass, allowing them to both dominate possession and use their intelligence and movement to move the Bielefeld players out of position in order to generate chances to score. Although they have two extra men along the backline, asking them to come out to pick up the extra runner from midfield is to court disaster as now the Bielefeld wingbacks would be put on an island against Dortmund’s wingers with a gaping hole behind them instead of a CB to pick up the pieces. Which is why, when the match actually kicked off, Bielefeld were lined up as follows:

The two wingers tuck in, the left-sided one staying high to partner as a second striker, and the other moving back diagonally to become a second central midfielder, allowing one of the CMs to drop to the strata between midfield and defense. This creates a matchup generally like so:

There are three crucial differences here, two that strengthen Bielefeld, and one that weakens them.

  1. They can now mark man-to-man in the middle of the field.
  2. By pushing an additional player up top, they’ve created a situation where if Dortmund turns the ball over deep into Bielefeld’s territory, a well-hit direct pass out of the back would find an equal matchup between strikers and defenders, leaving little room for error.
  3. Now the wingbacks have to also account for the fullbacks as well as helping shield the central defenders from the wide attackers. This isn’t the worst thing in the world, as the assignments for switching marking is more clear, as the extra man would be coming onto a flank with both the wingback and the wide CB.

However, point no. 2 is unfortunately not as positive as it could be, because neither player playing up top for Bielefeld has much pace, which means that one of the major weak points of this Dortmund team, as center-back Mats Hummels’ age and history of injuries means that he’s quite slow.

And indeed, I can’t remember a single dangerous Bielefeld attack over the course of the entire match, with Hummels even spending a fair amount of time carrying the ball over the halfway line, free of any concerns of being left for dead if the ball were to be turned over. However, Bielefeld did very well to stay deep and compact, keeping Dortmund at arm’s length for most of the game, aided somewhat by the visitor’s tendency to play at a fairly deliberate pace, something that Lucien Favre is known for, to some amount of frustration, especially after the breakneck pace under Klopp and to a lesser extent, Tuchel. They also didn’t generate much from open play. They did win a number of free kicks around the box though, and they got two goals from those, with Hummels rising high to head home both.

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wanted to pop in to say it’s ok to have tagged me! I’m not actually that great at thinking about tactics yet and by the time I came up with what I wanted to say it was the election so whooooops

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Football Manager has been going through it. I’ve talked about it a bit elsewhere; the summary is as follows: they had been working on porting the game to Unity for 6 years in some form or another. Even given that amount of time, they severely underestimated how much work it would be, to the point where FM25 had to be completely cancelled, something that hadn’t happened for over twenty years.

The situation was handled about as badly as you could imagine from a corporate communications situation, with three delays announced with perfunctory notes before just throwing up their hands and saying “wait until next year” and the community handled it about as well as you would expect, especially the content creators, who have always had a fractious relationship with SI.

The director did manage to do an interview with GQ though:

When FM26 did finally come out, the response was initially welcoming as the new match engine, the first in a decade or so, was a notable improvement. That quickly turned into 8,000 Mostly Negative reviews on Steam, as everybody realized the game was absolutely riddled with bugs and saddled with a new UI that was, and let’s try and be charitable here, not as good as the one it had replaced, and was apparently specifically designed to keep modders from producing skins for it.

Currently there are about 40K concurrent users on Steam for FM26, which is about 40% of where FM24 was at the same time. FM24 also has around 20K concurrent users right now.

In the latest example of things just falling apart like a car trying to drive with wheels that haven’t actually been bolted on, SI made a ton of noise about how international management – which is to say, managing national teams, which had been announced as a cut from FM25, was assumed to be possibly included in FM26, and was not – was being added! Except the initial delivery date has slipped. And no further word, five weeks before the World Cup kicks off.

There have always been grumbles about SI and their particular approach to development, things have never been lower than they are now, and the question is both whether SI can try and get people back onside, or if this shambolic performance will be rewarded by people who at the end of the day, don’t have anywhere else to go.

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I mean is there any credible professional or amateur developer even trying to take on the same task?

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I love this thread so much I get so excited whenever it is bumped thank you

Also this dude looks like he could be pro-wrestling journalist Dave Meltzer’s brother, to me

I wonder if his office looks like this too

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just catching up on this and it annoys me that i can’t play FM24 (removed from storefronts), but also that the thing i really want to do (create a true pro-rel pyramid for the USA that’s up to date, including MLS USL etc) is really fucking annoying.

i keep running into this thing with MLS, OOTP etc where the fantasy of creating an alternate sports universe runs into the reality of these games mostly being oriented towards the fantasy of success within the status quo.

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Yeah, they always remove the old versions of the game because the licenses expire after a certain point. It’s really annoying in this specific case because the jump to FM26 is so huge and modding it is such a PITA.

Lemme poke around and see if there’s a way to get a copy of FM24 to you.

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thanks!

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Looks like the key sites are all hideously expensive and are almost always the XBox version unfortunately.

They didn’t do a box copy of 24 either, so no luck finding a physical copy.

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I believe you can get a version of 2007 anyway which is the best one.

For a second tier european league (i.e Celtic) sign

Andres Guardado

Eddie Johnson

Omar Esparza

Antony Van Den Borre

Edhardo Rathino

And you will win the Chamions LEague within 2 seasons

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dah well i’ll just wait for a sale on 26 i guess. are there any good sites that do custom rosters / leagues etc

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i broke and bought fm26 (held out over a week well done me) now just have to remember how to play

any good content creators? i’ve found and like Zealand but his most recent beginner guide is from 2021-ish

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thinking about saves i’d like to play someday

country club -
Italy Venezia i want to go with this one if it’s not too tough
Livorno probably tougher?
swaggy clubs Torino, Roma, Spezia, Como, Napoli, basically anyone with a cool kit and history. not big 3, and i hate that Fiorentina rebrand :frowning:
France Marseille a ‘big club’… will it be ok for a beginner?
Red Star Paris probably tougher
other cool clubs St-Etienne, OGC Nice or something
Germany Werder Bremen
Union Berlin
St. Pauli
Spain Rayo Vallecano
Cádiz
Deportivo de A Coruña
Greece maybe AEK Athens or Athens Kallithea … something with a good kit
Netherlands a Rotterdam club probably Excelsior since they have a cool history, maybe Feyenoord or Sparta for an easier start
Scotland Celtic i saw this recommended as an ‘easier’ save… big club, small league
Ireland Irish league has a salary cap and European football which would be ‘interesting’
Brazil one of the Big 12 probably Corinthians, Vasco, Santos, or Vitoria
a lower division club with cool history Avaí (from Florianópolis, on an island)
USA Portland Hearts of Pine I would want to do it as a fantasy pro-rel pyramid setup, so this would probably be a longer-term idea
Europe unemployed start it beats picking a team
various semi-pro lefty clubs Roter Stern Leipzig, Altona 93, SV Babelsberg, Clapton CFC, Dulwich Hamlet, etc. non league shenanigans
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Good content creators for FM:

Second Yellow Card: https://www.youtube.com/@Secondyellowcard

Deep Lying Playmaker: https://www.youtube.com/@TheDeepLyingPlaymaker

RDF (although he hasn’t posted in a while): https://www.youtube.com/@RDFTactics/

Work the Space: https://www.youtube.com/@WorkTheSpace

If you have any questions, feel free to ask of course!

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I love doing unemployed starts, just be aware that they can be very difficult, depending on how you want to create your manager. I start with no badges/reputation and that means you’ll only get hired by teams at the bottom leagues, where everybody is on amateur contracts and they’re all bad…this is actually a really fun time so long as you can get used to the idea that you’re likely not going to do well, as you bounce from team to team. I had one save where I wound up with Braintree Town in the lowest-playable English league without mods and I think finished the season with like 7 points from 46 games played and a -112 Goal Differential…didn’t finish last thought!

And as you’re learning the game, I think that’s the most important aspect to keep in mind, it’s going to be frustrating and you’re not always going to be successful – what you’re learning when you fail is going to be what enables you to have “successful” saves later.

I’ve always wanted to do Red Star and Rayo saves – Livorno I think would be the hardest of the hardcore lefty clubs.

The most important aspect of each save is getting to the point where you feel invested. Sometimes that can take up to a couple seasons – there’s always an initial period of not quite feeling it and having the desire to change up to another save that might get you really bedded in.

This is a false door, you need to be able to stick it out in a save or you’ll just be repeating the save-hopping movement forever.

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