Fatigued Souls (Part 1)

I mean, I was thinking of that when I responded. imo it works when you see Demon’s as the one among all these games that’s most like a dungeon crawler, mechanically and level design-wise. I like the sense of material goods having some physical impact on my person even if it’s kind of arbitrary in its limits and relies on the abstraction of a menu; and now that we have five of these sorts of games I like playing one where I spend a minute or two preparing for the next dungeon dive that doesn’t just involve leveling up a weapon or buying healing items

I also like having to go to the Hunter’s Dream in Bloodborne, surely less convenient than having lanterns be leveling up/storage posts, so we might have a fundamental disagreement about meaningful inefficiencies

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Gotta admit i have not once had a problem with item load in DeS. Anytime i was overburdened i just equipped the ring you can get from Thomas before you even beat 1-1. Though i also insist on cleaning up my menus and bunging anything i’m not going to use into an item box/Thomas’ bags.

Inventory limit in DeS is so high that it’s just occasional busywork to store some stuff that you clearly won’t need. In dungeon crawlers and roguelikes, it’s low enough you need to make decisions about loadout and what treasure to pick up.

I imagine it was probably much lower at an earlier point in DeS’s development and they raised it to the point of practically being removed already. It remains as a vestigial way to justify Stockpile Thomas’s existence, who’s then mainly there in service of the “kill NPCs and suffer permanent consequences” concept.

Also it plays a part in the general chaos of DeS’s weapon upgrading system in that blacksmiths (even the 2-1 guy) can use stones directly from Thomas’s stockpile, and they’re pretty heavy, so there’s no reason to hold them. I think I unnecessarily shuttled them into my inventory a fair bit before realizing that.

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inventory limit in demon’s souls’ purpose was to screw you if you found brushwood early

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@diplo


i read this and thought of you

i tried the first DS2 DLC

theres a part where you fall down a waist-high crumbled stair that you can’t climb back up, and four guys with maces jump out while a sorceress shoots magic at you and a guy in the back shoots poison arrows and i just said “fuck you” and turned the game off

oh well, i got my money’s worth i guess. i probably don’t need to play this game again

i’m interested in this response - that part really really tickled my fancy and gave me really good videogame feels

what about it specifically caused the fuck it response?

mostly that it felt like an artificial, unfair challenge and i didn’t get any enjoyment from my efforts to overcome it
like i knew i could do it if it was patient but i just couldn’t summon up the will to give a shit

a few weeks ago i was starting to like the game again and then my patience with it just dropped precipitously around the undead crypt level. i just don’t like how it feels to move around and fight more than 3 things at a time. i dont know. i guess im back to feeling ambivalent, leaning negative towards DS2

i actually went through mostly the same arc the first time i played it after it came out: oh this game feels weird -> it’s pretty good though! -> wait what this is bullshit -> hmm do i suck at this game or do i just not like it -> i think i’ll just replay the first one again

it didnt help that i had BB (which was just constantly joyful and exciting for me) to directly compare it to

i had a lot of moments in dark souls 2 where i was like THIS FUCKING GAME THIS FUCKING SACK OF SHIT WHY. i got incredibly nervous of dying. i ended up playing the second portion of shulva like a puzzle game; only making tiny moves and observing things carefully. it was the closest ds has come to a zelda dungeon, and it reminded me of the kinds of daydream designing i spent most of my youth doing

but i can definitely see why it could be a fuck it moment. i had already given the game a lot of leeway due to how unexpectedly it gave me feelings no other game had since i was a child

  • also it was still significantly less bullshit than the acid world in shadow tower and that’s the best game of all time so

goddamn now i’m thinking about that room where all the bodies are. you probably haven’t been there yet. but oh my god, that room. i can’t say anything else without spoiling a lot probably!

i mean i should stress that im glad i gave DS2 another shot and i had quite some fun with it, but there is just something about how it plays and is put together that has severe diminishing returns for me. i don’t want to say “THIS FUCKING GAME” unless i’m saying it with a chuckle in my voice

im curious about the rest of the dlcs since everyone goes apeshit over them and it’s content i’ve not experienced, so i probably won’t throw in the towel for good just yet.

i feel like im being wishy-washy and whiny so on a more positive note: the revised dragon shrine, with the series of duels observed by passive dragon knights, was really really cool
(though the revised dragon aerie, with a dozen more of those exploding guys that break your equipment, was really uncool) (oops i got negative again uhhmm it’s still really pretty though)

That’s disappointing to hear about the aerie. I don’t even think the area needs any inhabitants besides the dragons and crystal lizards. If you didn’t like Shulva, I… don’t think you will like the other add-ons.

It’s weird to go back to Dark after months of only playing (among the trilogy, Demon’s, and BB) the sequel. It almost feels quaint. It is very austere. It had not fully struck me before how much of the game is not that offensively oriented. When you make it to the Demon Ruins there are no threats until you fight Ceaseless. The Darkroot basin has a fairly long descent/ascent with nothing but a lizard. A lot of space is given to the environments themselves. This might be an observation only a person with a lot of hindsight would make, but it may also be possible if a person were to abruptly go between the first and second game; the latter even on an initial playthrough feels fairly stuffed with opponents. I am a little disappointed to say that I think Dark Souls can only engage me on a mechanical level anymore if I go to the catacombs first, or something; but what else should I expect, years later.

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great another thing states can use to detect or track then kill or imprison people with

I love how much of DS1 is quiet and empty between encounters. In fact i think it strikes a near-perfect balance between combat-dense areas and combatlite areas, including inter-level (with “level” being defined as "anywhere that has a title card and that lovely ‘doom-doooom’ noise).

Like, Anor Londo, famous as it is for being one of the most challenging parts of the game, has huge stretches between DODGE 'EM! fights where you walk across a vast expanse and gaze at the horizon, or carefully inch across the rafters of a giant cathedral. Sen’s Fortress’s first half is a tense, difficult climb through a tower of swinging blades and narrow ledges and lighting-throwing sneople, and its second half is a relaxing jog around austere brick towers. Even one of the most seemingly combat-dense areas, the catacombs, literally bottoms out into carefully picking around a dark crevasse to avoid deadly rolling skelewheels (or else try running straight through). I mean even Blighttown has the relatively easy, sedate swamp area after the frictional barbarians-and-planks-and-ladders first half.

DS2 seems like it constantly wants to throw new combat challenges at you… i have a harder time drawing distinct points out where it doesn’t want to shower you with enemies (Heide’s Tower and Dragon’s Aerie kind of did this in the original, but then Scholar threw up a bunch of new shit!).
My favorite parts replaying 2: SotFS were when enemies were reduced and/or made more logical; the bit that stuck out to me most was early in the Forest of Fallen Giants, when you climb the first ladder after the first bonfire. The original version immediately set a bunch of hollows on you as soon as you mounted the top, with an archer shooting at you from an immediately unreachable wall. This introduced the kind of “ring around the rosey” approach a lot of enemy encounters in DS2 have, where you have to alternate between running/dodging and occasionally getting 1-2 attacks off. I have mixed opinions about that and i think the DLC so far has over-relied on it.

Scholar turns this area into a room littered with hollows playing dead. The hollow on the wall just throws bombs, so you’re harried if you approach him, but otherwise can take your time walking around the room and watching the soldiers of the old war the area is trying to impress upon you jump up and start fighting once more. It is excellent and despite technically involving a lot of combat, is a deliberate pumping of the brakes of the sort that i got a lot out of in DS1 and Demon’s Souls. And Bloodborne, tbh, as much as that game is pretty combat-dense it knows when to slow the fuck down and let me take a breath.

As for how engaging the combat is, uh, i dunno i simply think DS2 feels simultaneously too heavy and too floaty and has animations/SFX with too little impact. I would rather try a million different weapons in DS1, a game i have basically mastered, than more than 3 or 4 in DS2. The basic act of walking up to a shitty hollow and hitting him with my longsword feels better to me in DS1 than it does in DS2. That’s a real sticking point for me and i’m increasingly bewildered at how alone i am in having this opinion across the internet… compared to the other games in the series, DS2 is like waking up in my own home and finding all the furniture in every room moved around, and also my feet and arms are still asleep.

OK i took one more crack at the DLC, and i think it stinks and isn’t enjoyable to play.
I’ve played through 4 of the 5 games in these series and generally when i get the YOU DIED screen i think something akin to, "oh damn, that was tough. i bet i could do this but i should try something else"
2 is the only one that has made me think “WHAT?? are you fucking kidding me” more than a few times and that says it all imo

this game is even better with the dlc. but sometimes, uh

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I’ve made several attempts at Bloodborne, but never managed to get very far. I always started second-guessing myself right around Byrgenwerth- “Is this really the skillset I want to go with? Am I tackling the areas in the right order?” and so forth.

I mean, relative to other souls games, bloodborne only has like three builds, so I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over that part

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