EVERYBODY VOTES 2 PART I: THE SELECTBUTTON.NET TOP 64 VIDCONS 2020 (voting closes september 15, 2020, midnight cst!!)

All games are either deficient, abundant, perfect, or weird.

Yakuza 0 vs. Super Metroid

Yakuza 0 has Osaka, right? I’ve been to Osaka! It’s one of my favorite cities because you can plan your whole schedule around eating. I don’t think I’ll be able to go back any time soon. That means Yakuza may be my only ticket. I should plan a “trip” this fall by playing the game, drinking whiskey highballs, and eating takoyaki.

Super Metroid is very cool and moody which is tricky for a SNES game to accomplish. Bravo. It’s been imitated so much now that I don’t know if I can see its full greatness anymore. It’s got that SNES-ification that Link to the Past and SM World also have, where secrets are standardized into a comprehensible language. While it’s an improvement over its forebears in many ways, I miss how unexpected it felt to bomb holes all across the planet. It made the the very earth feel alive.

Decision: Yakuza 0

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I mean how often do any of us pictures? It’s just taking pictures but cooler who wouldn’t play it

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I’m a lot more tempted to boot up my cartridge and see what’s on it than I am to do a Deus Ex run where I focus on lockpicking or prod and to see if I can save Paul.

I prefer to take pictures with an appropriate camera (even smartphone high quality camera) though

It’s taking a lot of will power not to buy a GBCamera and Pocket and futz around with it right now.

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ftfy

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lmao isn’t every game essentially an order-of-operations and/or optimization puzzle when you think about it. isn’t every song just a collection of musical notes arranged together, what even is genre man

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god i came into this thread too late for the STG discourse huh ._.

ikaruga is a perfect game in a vacuum but it is a woeful representation of its genre and i hate this bracket. ikaruga is way more a Treasure Album than an STG Album

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I thought the ikaruga conversation held some interesting insights into a genre i have little experience with. I’m much happier that we got a list generated from what people actually like and played instead of what they thought was the best rep for its genre though

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There should be a separate bracket for all the games that got only one nomination. That would be a real sb fight right there

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tired: losers bracket
wired: underdog bracket

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i mean i hate the bracket because the choice is too hard not because of bad genre rep or whatever. i would have rather seen ZR up there tho

this is eerily true. i will never understand why it remains so slept on outside of here

MINECRAFT vs. SUPER STREET FIGHTER II TURBO

Winner: SUPER STREET FIGHTER II TURBO
Street Fighter II popularized the genre. It was a great game. It still plays well. I like the globetrotting thing it does even if it has since become cliche. Not my favorite version of Street Fighter II is still going to beat out most other games.

CRAZY TAXI vs. METAL SLUG 6 (Metal Slug 3 romhack)

Winner: FAKE METAL SLUG 6
I love Metal Slug. This hack fixes the problem with one of the best entries in the series.

STREET FIGHTER III THIRD STRIKE: FIGHT FOR THE FUTURE
vs. CONTRA: HARD CORPS

Oh shit, these were both on my list. I’m leaning toward Third Strike, even though Hard Corps is fantastic as well.

YAKUZA 0 vs. SUPER METROID

I don’t know if I’ll vote on this one.
I’ve never played the Yakuza games.
Super Metroid is great, but I know nothing about Yakuza 0, maybe it’s better.

NIGHTS INTO DREAMS vs. SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 2

Winner: NIGHTS INTO DREAMS

I like both of these games a lot, but I like Nights more! You can jump in and play either of these games and have a great time. If you want to go deeper, Nights is a game that is especially good at making you care about playing for score, and playing for score is actually fun. Even outside of playing for score, you can try to play stylistically, and even if you’re not doing any of that there is an insane level of detail in the world building that can be explored. Nights has layers upon layers, and it is just amazing.

GAME BOY CAMERA vs. DEUS EX

Winner(?): Deus Ex
This is the game I always wanted. A first person shooter with a story and branching paths, and open ended approaches to completing missions. It goes above and beyond by being both serious and comical in a charming accidental way. There’s intelligent and interesting dialogue that’ll encourage looking up fun conspiracy theories, and line delivery that’s earnest but odd. I love it.

That said, mad props to anyone planning to vote for Game Boy Camera over it. It just seems so fun, in a way that encourages if not almost outright relies on socialization and experimentation.

IKARUGA vs. FINAL FANTASY XIV

I’m maybe going to vote for Ikaruga, and it pretty much comes down to
Shooter > RPG. Shooters for life!
I’ve barely played Ikaruga. I played it in an arcade in Beijing once.
Try doing that with Final Fantasy XIV!

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Honestly, this is my favorite idea for a hypothetical round 2. People would have to cheerlead for their lives in matchups like 100% Orange Juice vs CHYRZA or Doshin the Giant vs Karnov’s Revenge

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Well, I said it “felt” like it was solved. It definitely wasn’t, it’s way too demanding for that, but it was easy to imagine a drawer inside Treasure HQ filled with reams of graph paper showing the perfect path through the game, and I think that’s one of the reasons why the game crossed over. This clearly wasn’t like other 2D arcade games of its era, which had a rep for being visually outdated, mechanically shallow, and intentionally unfair*. Your average IGN GameCube reader could easily pick up on how this game was meant to be played, they could recognize that this is all intentional, they could download a 240x320 video of a good player and sit in awe of the skill on display yet copy at least some of their strats, which is much easier to do in Ikaruga than its peers thanks to the polarity gimmick.

So I’m repeating myself a bit there but yeah maybe I could say it felt solvable in a way other games in the genre didn’t

Like remember this shit, all the comments were “this is bullshit cheating game” while Ikaruga 2p superplays were “this player is superhuman”.

I bet this video has more views than any Ikaruga vid though.

I’d totally forgotten about the online high scores for the GC version. Could that be a first in a Western released shooter? That was pretty important. So was having to unlock extra credits.

They did a lot right with this game, no wonder people love it, that is what I am saying here.

*And in retrospect I can totally understand why most people in the West felt that way, because they had no context for these games. Most home ports did nothing to discourage credit feeding, had no tutorials, skimpy manuals, and why would you even think of playing for score if you had no one to compete with or learn from? This genre flamed out for a reason beyond 2D games falling out of fashion.


Anyway since super plays came up:

Commercial super play videos were nothing new in 2003. They even released them on laserdisc.

The peak of the Famicom and the Japanese arcade and the rise of home video was during the bubble economy. There had to be a bunch of 10,000 yen VHS tapes telling you how to beat, like, R-Type or Gradius or Tower of Druaga. I’m sure you can find rips on niconico or Windy or even Youtube. I’d look myself if I knew Japanese! Ikaruga getting a DVD only proves that it had rabid fans. Cave games got them too! Shit, didn’t all of Arika’s PS2 ports came with super plays on a separate disc? You didn’t even have to buy them separately.

Ikaruga-Appreciate-DVD-03

The Ikaruga Appreciate DVD is lovely, by the way. I wanted that so bad back then.

Just found this on my computer. Forgot it was my wallpaper for ages .


Anyway I think it’s much more interesting to talk about why these games may be popular than complain about how something else shoulda taken their slot. Sorry everyone, popular things often win popularity contests. Sorry more people here love Ikaruga than Layer Section or Space Bomber or Tumiki Fighters. Maybe there’s a good reason for that, maybe all the words that everyone’s written explain why, maybe folks on here actually know what they’re talking about. Like, Elevator Action Returns is going to win 99% of the vote against Dota 2, one of the most popular games on the planet. This is a community that likes good, obscure things. These other shooters didn’t get passed over cuz we’re rubes who got duped by marketing. It’s because Ikaruga is a standout game. And because no one rallied to the cause of Espgaluda, which is today’s Best Shooter Ever Made.

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Both these things sound fun to me.

Tumiki Fighters rules! It’s so colorful and fun, and expanding and contracting your fighter is visually interesting. I don’t like it as much as Torus Trooper, but yeah.
Kenta Cho should get so much respect for his work. He made a whole pile of fantastic games and not only released them for free, but also released the source code so they could be easily ported to other platforms.
Noiz2sa was one of my favorite games to play on the GP32.

It was already mentioned, but kind of worth repeating that Cave fans kinda split the vote, since everyone tends to have different favorites.
Maybe that speaks to your point about Ikaruga standing out though.
Radiant Silvergun and Gradius V didn’t keep Ikaruga off the list.

I think the Ikaruga backlash probably wouldn’t have happened had Recca been just above instead of just below the qualifying line. We would have had a very normie game and an eclectic pick. Oh well.

This whole idea of a Selectbutton top 64 has been fun so far. :slight_smile:

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All this talk about Ikaruga is making me miss the heck out of Treasure more than anything.

After looking at the brackets again, I’ve edited my original post to change my vote from Sonic 2 to NiGHTS. There’s plenty of Sonic on there to fight for already and NiGHTS deserves to move forward. So very replayable, stylish, I love the bad acid trip baddies and this is one of the finest moments in all of saxophony:

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if you look in old issues of gamest, there are indeed ads for vhs superplays of arcade games.

since i found out what gamest is, i’ve always thought that western videogame fandom would be very, very diffrent if there was an english-language magazine that contained nothing but play techniques and deepest lore for arcade games.

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This is a good point and it ties in to the longstanding issue sorta acknowledged by the genre’s fandom: there is a relative shortage of current entry level games at any given time. Ikaruga by coming from a more… commonly known developer and hence getting coverage from sites like IGN helped a bunch (also being released outside of Japan in a timely manner didn’t hurt either), but also compared to say a Cave shooter as you note it is relatively more approachable to someone with little prior genre experience and that likely helps.

Anyways I think we’d all mostly be in agreement that Ikaruga is a fairly idiosyncratic shooter and hence wouldn’t or at least shouldn’t be what one envisions when they think of the genre as a whole. I think of Galaga myself… :sweatpig:

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iirc icycum hated ikaruga for being for shitty know-nothing casuals and posers so i will always appreciate its presence

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