???
err, shouldnāt be.
RECOUNT!!!
We should get a recount / vote on the Street Fighter II version!
Turbo got 2 votes
Super Turbo got 2 votes
I voted for Rainbow and would definitely want Turbo over Super Turbo!
1 Like
Also of note:
In Street Fighter, Ryu was Player 1 and Ken was Player 2.
That you couldnāt originally both play as the same character in Street Fighter II is probably a big part of why Ken got brought over to the sequel.
I concede.
I recounted. There are 3 unambiguous votes for Super Turbo, and 1 ambiguous vote for Turbo.
Super Turbo won.
3 Likes
MINECRAFT
vs.
SUPER STREET FIGHTER II TURBO
Minecraft has a lot more going for it. Super Turbo has become a bit crusty.
MINECRAFT WINS
CRAZY TAXI
vs.
METAL SLUG 6 (Metal Slug 3 romhack)
Crazy Taxi has incredible mechanics. That video above with the bonus levels? I couldāve made those bonus levels, theyāre garbage. But the CT mechanics make them brilliant. Thatās golden. I spent Ā£60 importing this on the Dreamcast back in the day and it was absolutely worth it. Metal Slug has aged not as well.
CRAZY TAXI WINS
EVERYBODY VOTES
vs.
PUYO PUYO series
EV is correct. Puyo Puyo is not Panel de Pon.
EVERYBODY VOTES WINS
STREET FIGHTER III THIRD STRIKE: FIGHT FOR THE FUTURE
vs.
CONTRA: HARD CORPS
Contra: Hard Corps is too difficult, like unfairly difficult. SFIII:III is very unbalanced but the parry mechanic is so flipping good.
SFIII WINS
YAKUZA 0
vs.
SUPER METROID
Like Minecraft, I value quantity over quality these days. Yakuza has both.
YAKUZA 0 WINS
NIGHTS INTO DREAMS
vs.
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 2
I played Sonic 2 to the point of boredom when I was a nipper, as games were v expensive. I also played NiGHTS a lot but that had a decent score attack system incorporated, offering endless fun.
NiGHTS WINS
GAME BOY CAMERA
vs.
DEUS EX
I only ever got to play with the Game Boy Camera for a lil bit, so I canāt vote for it! Sucks tbh.
DEUS EX WINS
IKARUGA
vs.
FINAL FANTASY XIV
Iām actually voting against Ikaruga here because it requires too much attention for minimal reward, unlike the hardest rhythm action games. I also burnt rice to a pan because of that intense and undeserved focus.
FINAL FANTASY 14 WINS but donāt think youāre going any further
7 Likes
part of ikarugaās success, imo, is that looking at it like a genre title, like a shooter, is insufficient to perceive the full value in it. itās no surprise that āshooter fansā might begrudge it. that game fucking rules as a video game. whether or not itās a good representative of the genre hardly matters because that game literally transcends its genre
8 Likes
This is like saying Hamilton transcends the genre of hip hop.
(Mostly sarcastic here, but really Ikaruga is a pretty good puzzle game dressed as a shooter, which is why shooter fans get annoyed at being told what a good shooter it is.)
6 Likes
this is the ideal hip hop. you may not like it, but this is what transcending the genre looks like
7 Likes
i actually became interested in this after shitposting so i looked it up and ikaruga came in 6th on what i think is the most recent shmup popularity poll in system11, so iām not sure if itās even accurate to say shooter fans donāt like it. but i definitely feel like itās more of its own thing than most shooters
1 Like
god this is me in a nutshell too, iām so bad at that kind of creativity. I love Minecraft but I mostly make maps and see other peopleās shit in it, thatās what I love the most about it.
One of my fondest Minecraft memories was playing on the OHRRPGCE servers and a guy was on who wasā¦I think a professor at Oxford? Anyway he was building a church, it was his third church, all based on real churches in Oxford. I did a little tour and they were gorgeous, just these incredible buildings recreated in Minecraft with a real obvious passion and joy.
But the thing that got me was that every brick was laid by hand, every resource gathered manually. This was not a creative server! Something about the labor put into that creation made it all the more fantastic and awe-inspiring to me. It was a real labor of love!!
So thatās Minecraft to me. A way that people express their endless creativity and joy in a way that Iām not really able to, but Iām happy to be witness to it, and make maps and tourist guides about it. God I love Minecraft
6 Likes
Yeah shooter fans (self included!) do like it. I just get sick of it being held up as THE shooter, so seeing it as the only shooter on lists gets irksome.
3 Likes
I canāt build things in Creative mode. Itās gets really boring for me really fast. The church I built on the one SB server was all by hand because figuring out how to do that is half the fun.
I have built some huge ridiculous structures in Survival. This is why I donāt keep Minecraft installed.
I know itās entirely an artifact of the rating system theyāre using, but part of me finds it funny that these shmup fansā #1 favorite game is a 7.64/10, and their 25th favorite game is a 2.52/10. Talk about tough love!
2 Likes
Count me in for being awful at building things or any kind of "sandbox"y type game. Looking at you, Crusader Kings. No win state? Give me a goal! Some challenges, something! I need structure. I guess iām a gd dmn sheeple.
1 Like
Ikaruga is no less of a shooter than R-Type, a game that is even more rigid and demands even more memorization from the player. You donāt have to interact with Ikarugaās chaining, you donāt have to play dot-eater, I fail to see how learning whenās the best time to switch polarity so you can survive a laser blast is any different from memorizing when some Bydo baddy is going to come from behind and bop you.
Itās an action game, I can play it for survival, I do not need to think one bit while playing it. I cannot do that with Kickle Cubicle or Guru Logic Champ or Lolo or even fuckinā Braid or Solitaire ā reflexes and rote memorization will not get me anywhere in those games, yet theyāre all I need to succeed in Ikaruga.
Like, if Ikaruga is a puzzle game what are Raizing games? Youāre opening Pandoraās box once you look into playing those things seriously. Success requires you to keep track of so many elements and hunting down so many secrets and even intentionally suiciding to manage your rank. They become some real Tower of Druaga shit. That whole studioās design philosophy seemed to be trying to one-up Masanobu Endo.
Yet you can still play them for survival. Just like Ikaruga.
And I donāt think Ikaruga has any moments that left me wondering āhow the hell do I kill this thingā, unlike some Cave games like Espgaluda. How do you kill that final boss? I donāt know! haley and I got stuck on it at Galloping Ghost! Iām still mad that I failed at credit feeding a shooting gameā¦! That stuff is bullshit!
You can just shoot everything until it dies in Ikaruga though. Itās great.
12 Likes
The difference for me is that Ikaruga gets easier if you start playing to the puzzle instead of just survival, whereas Raizing stuff gets more challenging if you try to take all the ranking etc. into account.
2 Likes
Yeah but these āpuzzleā elements are heavily featured in every single arcade shooter released over the last 25+ years and the only difference with Ikaruga is that itās blindingly obvious what you need to do to solve it. Figuring out how to chain an entire level in DoDonPachi is a similar yet far more unintuitive process.
You may not want to deal with the chaining, neither do I, but it is not a puzzle unless weāre using an incredibly broad definition of the term. Like, if weāre gonna call rote memorization in a twitch action game a puzzle we may as well really lean into becoming some stodgy old fart forum and start using ājumping puzzlesā when talking about Marios and Meat Boys.
4 Likes
i just want to clarify that i donāt mean ātranscends shootersā to mean ābetter than shootersā - it isnāt wholly different from other shooters even, but the enjoyment that one can extract from ikaruga extends beyond the scope of what shooters aim to satisfy in a more general sense. there is a tickling of the brain present in that game that excites in me possibility for what could be, even as a kid who had only played a few shooters in the arcade and darius twin. i didnāt care about shooters, but i did care about ikaruga. it transcends in that it is unabashedly, firmly a shooter while offering something seemingly outside that. itās why i started looking into the genre more in the first place! treasure games have had a way of exciting my imagination and i think this one is no different. i probably like it more for those few moments of adolescent brain tickling than shooters that i would much rather play at the moment - mushihimesama, for example. i think i only join the chorus when i say i donāt really want to go back to ikaruga.
ikaruga, once you perceive the optimal path or watch high-level play, almost feels offensive to play. itās like you are being thrust into the lead role of something more elegant than you may be capable of. itās thrilling and terrifying. i am satisfied knowing that high level play exists and is beautiful. but i donāt want to go there myself haha!
4 Likes
To me, it just comes down to how āsolvedā something is. Like even you said a few days ago, Ikaruga was āsolvedā almost before it was released. There is an optimal path, and it is just there, and that is why people can play through it as both players at the same time. Ikaruga does a neat thing of making the optimal path probably the easiest way through it, which is cool. Thereās just a lot more feeling of being able to figure out the optimization in a Raizing game, and I donāt even know if anyone has āsolvedā something like Garegga totally. People have their styles in Raizing stuff, but there is one style in Ikaruga, making it less enjoyable to me.
Like literally(but also jokingly), the chain mechanic in Ikaruga is a Match 3 game with only two colors. This is how it is a puzzle game.
4 Likes
I guess the thing is that as a shooter fan, I get this imagination place a lot better from games other than Ikaruga. Ikaruga ended up feeling like the opposite of that place to me, by the time I was through with it.
So in the end it is just me griping about games I like getting overlooked for obvious choices, which is almost always how I end up reacting to lists.
2 Likes