Elegy of Orra: Fumbling toward an 'open world' mess

I’m starting this thread because we were talking in the QQ thread about how maybe we should talk more about our game development projects here.

I found out about Kate Barrett’s Open World Jam a few weeks after it started back in March 2022. Her pitch at the time was, hey, let’s try to make open world games fast, like in two months (I don’t remember the actual original timeframe, but it was under three months). I was like, yeah, cool. Let’s try it.

The jam has since been extended multiple times, as Kate hasn’t finished her own game yet (I did a little testing on it some months back and it’s very cool). I am still working on mine. The current deadline is April 29, though on the Discord, Kate’s suggested she’ll extend it again.

Anyway, back in 2018, I started this one project. It was supposed to be an improvised open world-ish adventure platformer thing, where the player could go one of four key ways. My thought was I’d spend a week on each branch and then another week tying it all together to make an exploration platformer in ~a month. That fizzled, but I thought I could maybe take a similar approach and create something quickly. I wanted to improvise the world as I went. So I borrowed some assets, including the player character, from that and set to work.

Here’s the first video I posted on March 31, 2022, to Twitter, showing off my day/night cycle, sped up. (It does look a little better/smoother now.)

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At first I thought I was going to make a game without combat at all. that it would be an extension of the ideas in my game Temple of the Wumpus, all about seeking out knowledge to solve mysteries. But then I thought, well, maybe I’ll make it combat-optional. Then I made a spear animation I really liked. Then I made a bow and arrow animation I liked even more. Then I was like, well, I guess combat will be required.

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My idea to make this up as I went along quickly ran into problems as I started filling in the first town, put together the first mini-dungeon, and sketching out the surrounding areas. I could either make it a fully open, almost goal-less wander-and-see-what-you-find game (which is appealing to me on one level), or, as my ideas kept taking shape, I could structure it around a central quest. The latter won out, and then I found myself approaching the Zelda 2-like game I’ve always thought about making.

Holy shit, I realized, after the deadline had been extended into the fall. I’ve made a lot of stuff for this, but this is gonna take more than the two more months or so I have to finish if I want it to be what I think it can be and not have squandered what I started—a big part of this was sorting out story structure/premise—so I guess I’ll put this on the backburner for a minute while I whip up something smaller scale. So I spent a week putting together the basics of a cavern-exploration game featuring Disney duck-like duck characters. It was basically Super Pitfall + Capcom’s DuckTales.

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Damn, and then that started getting too complicated. I want to go back to that one day, too. But as Kate extended the deadline further, I went back to my original project. All of this coincided with the development of my Ungrateful Birds games (which I finally released in January 2023) and also significant work on the Explobers sequel I’m also working on.

I eventually sketched out more or less the entire overworld. It’s massive and sprawling. It took a long time, but I’ve settled on a basic structure I like.

One major issue is still the story. I’ve rewritten the premise a bunch of times, and I have something I kind of like, but it is perhaps too linear for the openness I am aiming for and also perhaps lacking in momentum/propulsion. As such, while I’ve started to make significant progress, and I’ve now got a world where the player can do a lot, the backbone is a bit amorphous and volatile.

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And now I’m looking at my task sheet. I’ve fully designed 1 of 6 main dungeons. There are supposed to be 3 more. I have a bunch of items and systems that I have basically implemented that I still need to figure out how the player is supposed to get access to, in a way that isn’t too gated or linear but also not too obscure or frustrating. I’ve got a structure that relies on the player reading texts and talking to people to put together how to discover the way forward, but none of that is in the game or even actually written yet.

It’s supposed to be a game of research and discovery. All the dungeons are hidden and require, uh, lots of reading to figure out how to access. Same with items, including weapons. There’s a whole magic system that I’m hoping will not be obvious and will hopefully be a surprise when the player figures out how it’s integrated into the world. I’m really hoping to avoid the search-action/Metoridvania-exhaustion feeling of “oh, I see this obstacle and i know how this works. better come back here when i get the doublejump/dash/hookshot/whatever codified ‘upgrade’.” maybe this will be more annoying and less successful? I don’t know! I hope it’s neat and different.

So I’m hoping that as I continue doing the level design aspect of it, the narrative design will snap into better focus and I can start filling the world with characters and text that make for a cohesive, coherent, and (hopefully) engaging whole. I’m hoping it isn’t completely unhinged of me to think I can tie this all together.

Oh, and then there’s all the side stuff I want to make sure is in there.

I had other things I was going to write about in this initial post, but this’ll do for now. There’s a lot to talk about.

I am excited for where this is going. Each dungeon is going to be mechanically/structurally pretty different, if things go like I expect. This was supposed to be kind of a lark, but it’s turning into my most complicated project by an order or two of magnitude. Kate’s assured us that she’ll probably be extending the jam yet again from its April 29 end date, at least until she can finish her own project (which I’m sure is more than 2 months away). (By the way, some people have made and finished their games, such as my friend WiL’s ZZT open world deckbuilder ZOZ, which is kind of amazing and he finished in November 2022.)

And then I’m like, holy shit, I’ll have spent 2,000 hours working on this and no one is ever even going to play it. Who the fuck is this for? lol lol lol

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Also, the color palette on the protagonist is a little weird, but I have tried a handful of other color options and everything, even more normal colors, look somehow worse to me, or a lateral move at best (partly because there are a lot of dark areas in the game and I’d prefer her hair not to just blend into the background). I keep hoping I’ll find something new that works, but it’s a struggle (also I can’t put her in green because you can only do so many Zelda-like things before you just start looking like a full-on Zelda rip-off/tribute, which I don’t really want this to be seen as (though more and more Zelda shit keeps creeping in)).

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I have been working on this hard again. Now I think the target is the end of the year?? Idk. There just keeps being more and more of this game to make.

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I have now done 5 of the 6 main dungeons (well the fifth, pictured, is nearly done). Each has a unique mechanical hook that I’m pretty excited about. The last one is going to be an implementation of a puzzle idea I’ve been trying to figure out how to work into a game for a while, so I’m real excited to get to that.

After these are done… it’s time to really finalize the story and start making sure the sequences are all scripted and all make sense.

Oh, and I need to figure out a suitable end-game sequence… right.

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It’s been really interesting to just make this sprawling mess of a thing while trying to keep it coherent. When I was making one of the dungeons, I suddenly realized I needed something else in addition to the keys I was putting in the dungeon and then I realized… I might need some sort of musical instrument or something. This has now become a central item in the game.

Well, there’s more of that Zelda shit creeping in. But I think/hope I’m doing enough weird and different stuff (there’s some weird and different stuff in here, I think) that it will to really give this its own identity.

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Ok so i have been in my irl circles sort of a famous open world hater. I have written essays and given presentations on what i consider the main issues with the contemporary open world genre, games that do things right, and ways they could be better. I did a sort of definitive(?) or at least final presentation on the subject once:

Playing linda^3 kinda broke my brain tho. It made me reconsider my broad hatred and incepted an idea in my mind that i need. To fuckin. Make. An open world game. I dont have anything to show for that yet (all research work thus far) but i am so fucking here for weird indie open world games and im about to be neck deep in it

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Thanks for sharing this presentation! A lot of really great insight, things that resonated with thoughts I’ve had, and some new ways of framing problems. Well said with regard to how fast travel threatens to ruin space. I’ve been meaning to write some sort of something about the deleterious effects of reducing your gameworld to a series of menus ever since Persona 5 came out.

I’m actually not a big fan of open world games. I rather do like the two Switch Zeldas and Elden Ring, even though I find certain limited aspects of them exhausting. I’m making my game very much in mind of the things I don’t like about open world games (which I should admit to not having that much hands-on experience with, but Horizon Zero Dawn left a serious bad taste in my mouth). That doesn’t mean I’ll avoid all the same traps that I think I’m trying to or that I won’t fall into a bunch of new ones, but it’s an aim at least. One thing I have going for me is I’m making this all by myself, which means I really can’t scope this thing beyond all reason and have no aims of making this game all things to all people.

You have me very curious about Linda^3 now and it’s going on the long list of games I really need to play but probably won’t get to, even though doing so seems likely help make my current project better.

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Persona 5 also had it on my mind!!! Too big too fuckin big

At last, I gave this game a title: Elegy of Orra. I’m still not 100% good with it but after two years of thinking about it, it’s the best I got.

So I’ve hit some major milestones lately. First is that I finished the 6 main dungeons. I’ve also figured out how to get the player the first items they need to make the game completable, save for one. Technically, once I figure out how to get the player the flute early on, this means that the main quest of the game is actually complete and can be accomplished (save for the ending sequence, which I haven’t quite figured out what that’s supposed to look like yet).

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This game has become massive. It’s probably over 200 room/screens, and I still have the vast majority of the game’s interiors to do. Speaking of,

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I built the game’s main library out of mostly preexisting assets or quickly remixed assets. It’s three triple-width screens. Each of the couple dozen bookcases will give the player unique information. Just setting this up took me four and a half hours (oh, and I have a basement to finish). I also have three other smaller libraries to build and populate with information, in addition to small libraries in dungeons, etc. And then I have to populate the libraries… and the whole world with NPCs.

This made something click for me: There is no way in hell this game will be done in December.

The only way to maybe make that work would be to halt all my freelance work and then just call sick at my day job for two weeks. And that would be rushing things.

This started out as a supposedly quick “open world” jam game, a spiritual sequel to my Temple of the Wumpus game, that I was supposed to get done within 3 months. I let the scope get huge as I followed my own interests in what I thought it should look like and accidentally started making the sort of “dream project” I’ve been thinking about my entire life. The sort of potentially forever project I could be working on for a decade or longer. I’ve been working on it off and on for 2.5 years already, and I have a plan to get myself to the end, though I also probably have to write a novel’s worth of words (the story of which still has some ambiguous points I need to resolve) for dialog and in-game texts.

I’ve been able to get as far as I have by lying to myself about how much work I had left to do. And now I’m deep enough in that to abandon it or clip it would leave the game a waste of what potential I think it has, and a squandering of what is probably literally 1200 hours of work.

I’d been asking Kate Barrett to hold the jam open so I could get this game out under the banner of the jam, but I’m dropping that now (I think the jam never got quite enough attention to assume much of a built-in player base anyway).

Most importantly, I’m turning this into a backburner project instead of rushing to get this done. I’m showing Explobers at an event in 3 weeks, and I’d like to refine it a bit from the last exhibit, and I’d also like to get the game done some time next year and figure out a plan for commercial release. Further, I want to release something in 2024, so I’m going to spend December putting together some sort of small project or participating in a jam.

This will allow me to do other things with Elegy of Orra. Something I’ve wanted from the beginning was something of an alternate route through the game, working with a counterfaction or somesuch. I’ve got a vague idea but thought I’d have to cut it, but I think this becomes a possibility again if I can keep adding to this without the (moving) deadline I’d been chasing. I can also feel less pressure to emphasize the game’s “open world” aspects; this pressure was already low, but nonetheless. Outside of a jam framework, too, I’m more willing to scrap or completely rework something if it seems like it’s not working.

The game’s already become a bit of a palimpsest, with my interests having shifted over the last 3 years, so it’ll continue to be a weird pastiche, but I think it suits it. It’ll be interesting to see what happens! I really need/want to finish this one day, fr.

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