I triggered all of his questline & he didn’t show up for that fight
My NPC luck was so bad I’m going to try again in NG+
[quote=“Broco, post:416, topic:1250, full:true”]
I recommend getting over total nonuse of shields. It’s true that they’re a crutch that’s not strictly needed, and the real PvE pros (speedrunners) never use them except to parry, but the game was still designed around them.[/quote]
I don’t actually hate shields that much, I’m just being facetious. On my Knight alt I actually am attempting to use the shield to learn parrying! Shield use+medium weapon 1-handed is okay, I guess. If you’re into that kinda thing.
I play fighting games competitively, so dying over and over again in Souls to learn roll timing/attack tells doesn’t really piss me off. The first time I played Demon’s Souls a few years ago, it kinda pissed me off, but these days after playing DS1 (about midway thru, generally stopped after O&S) and DS2 (played to completion NG and NG+) , it doesn’t bother me anymore. I learned not to take death personally, laugh when I get hit by something that I rolled too early/too late or got hit by a buttslam for going too YOLO after a roll. Compared to losing to human players, losing to a computer-controlled boss in Souls for being dumb really doesn’t bother me that much. Not unless I did something stupid like backstep off a cliff.
And I also learned a lot more about how to read not just visual cues, but how to guess with reasonable accuracy what various tells mean that I’ve never seen before. Infer stuff based on subtle stuff from older games like Quelaag hugging her spider and friggin’ Najika curling up her tail (both of which are mostly just crash courses in “move the camera around while you’re R1’ing, genius”).
The only ones that have blindsided me to date in DS3 have been Wolnir’s breath and Old Demon King’s inward fire ring, and both of those fights only took me about 3-4 deaths to get down.
(Of course, I also “cheated” and put my summon sign down for a bunch of 'em to get a noncommital preview of how to do the boss myself. And of course I read the fextralife wiki. I try to avoid spoilers for going thru the actual dungeons, but I have no compunctions about spoiling myself on how to beat the boss when I get there. That’s my fighting games background talking – don’t waste time on enjoying the atmosphere. Confronted with a problem, pursue an immediate solution.)
Eh. I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it. Or I guess when I’m vaccuumed into it or chased onto it by skeleton dogs or something. Shouldn’t take me too many deaths.
To be honest the only place I really miss having a shield is in PvP situations, which I try to avoid. Since my build is high STR but low VIT (or w/e the equip load-boosting stat is, can’t remember the name) , I run around in armor with low poise. I tend to have a reasonably fast weapon in the Butcher Knife, but if I get clipped by a swing I thought (erroneously) I’d roll thru or step away from, that’s basically it. Hitstun till death. But in PvE I don’t really bring out a shield except in situations like the DS1 Sen’s Fortress bridge (the 1st one) with the snakeman shooting lightning bolts, where not only is the roll timing strict, but the stakes for failure are high (whaddup swinging blade). Otherwise, I feel like fastroll and/or not picking mob fights I can’t win is a sufficient PvE solution.
I have a couple thoughts on this:
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Parrying is probably balanced primarily with PvP/humanoid enemies in mind. The designers probably figure it’s a reasonable assumption that you shouldn’t be trying to parry an axe swing when the axe is the size of a small redwood. EDIT By this I’m not referring to stuff that reasonably looks blockable/parryable, like a Taurus Demon axe swing, but stuff more like a Gaping Dragon rear-up-and-faceplant move where visually, it seems really, really clear that the designers want & expect you to avoid the attack rather than block it.
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Building off of (1), parries probably aren’t active 1st frame both to look less aesthetically abrupt (esp in netplay with rollbacks), and because 1st-frame active parry + multiple active frames mans that in many cases, you might end up with a ridiculously huge last-minute window to spam parry vs a swing you didn’t actually “read” (predict) and get it anyway. That’s whatever in a strictly PvE game (see Dragon’s Dogma and Assassin’s super-cheesy spammable invulnerable parry), but in a game with a PvP component that has serious (im)balance implications.
Hell, many 1st-frame active parries in fighting games usually require super meter to perform, and the ones that don’t tend to range from really really good to just plain stupid, depending on what/how many hit levels they deflect. In a game without a high-low component (Souls!), a 1f parry would be a pretty big deal if it had even 2 active frames. So From gives parry a certain # of startup frames so that you can’t just spam it from disadvantage – you need to space yourself in such a way that you can get through the startup frames without being hit.
I don’t think Bloodborne’s gun parries are active 1st frame either, but they probably just feel more intuitive because you can perform them at a longer, safer range than you can many shield parries in Souls. You’re getting the same ideal behavior as in Souls, it’s just easier to “see” how to space yourself for parry success.
Yes
If it’s any consolation, the two [BIG SWORDS] knights outside of a certain boss’ chamber gave me more trouble than the boss itself (which I somehow managed to get by on my first try). I feel like dying in two hits shouldn’t be happening, unless the game has suddenly decided to become H.A.R.D., or somehow all of my armor is terrible. If this is the way it’s going to be now, I might as well go full dragonoid from here on out and not worry about armor.
I just got an item which I literally cannot find anywhere in my inventory and it’s making me go insane.
The true Dark Souls starts here.
A lot of us were worried about Bloodborne being too much of more of the same. At this point in time, though, I think that’s a concern better directed at DS3, as well put together as it is. Playing this… kind of makes me appreciate what Bloodborne did, mechanically and formally, even more. So I’m glad that this is supposedly the last game in the series.
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ALSO ALSO: Idk why, but I’m finding the placement of illusory walls almost… intuitive.
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I wasn’t really advocating that parries should be switched to active 1st frame. I’m certain you are correct that that would make parries brokenly strong. If I were to suggest microimprovements to parries, I’d suggest the shield ought to glow during the active frames and there should be a loud “cling!” (the classic signifier of immunity) when you “successfully” parried an unparriable attack. You know, basic feedback on why my parry didn’t work.
If they can’t be bothered to make parries halfway understandable and satisfying – presumably because they’re so rarely used they can’t be bothered to waste time polishing the mechanic – then parries should not be in the game at all (also, of course, kicks shouldn’t exist). Both those mechanics were specifically raised by From designers as being rather questionable in the Dark Souls Design Works interview, so why are they still totally unchanged two games later?
Yeah, unfortunately, DkS3 has many humanoid-with-weapon bosses who are not parryable.
I actually see a certain logic in what bosses can be critted. In the early game, Abyss Watchers can be backstabbed and Pontiff Sulyvahn can be parried. Those are specific weaknesses to those early bosses that wily players can exploit. In the late game, neither of those overpowered techniques work against any (?) boss – late game bosses can be critted instead via a stunned-by-overall-damage-over-last-~30-seconds mechanic, which rewards players for general in-your-face aggression rather than specific tricks. I buy that, it’s an interesting progression. But that’s a very gamey logic that doesn’t have much correlation to appearances.
Was it Path of the Dragon? That’s a gesture.
It’s because of the tells. In this game, unreachable items and locations behind illusory walls tend to be visible from elsewhere and you can circle around them and reason that the only way to reach them must be via an illusory wall. I found it really satisfying to reason about the layout of the Smoudering Lake and get the item behind the illusory wall there (and was rewarded by it being a great item). This is an innovation of DkS3. Also, illusory walls can now be revealed by rolling. From is schooling everyone on how to make a seemingly hostile mechanic like illusory walls into great game design.
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I think parries and kicks exist mainly to create more space for player expression (and, theoretically at least, because of their utility in PvP). I’m biased to like them because i enjoy extraneous mechanics that are just there to mess with. Not that i would mind if they were more frequently useful.
You could roll into illusory walls in Dark 1. Dark 2 made them into Doom hidden doors for some stupid reason.
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[quote=“sleepysmiles, post:432, topic:1250, full:true”]
I think parries and kicks exist mainly to create more space for player expression (and, theoretically at least, because of their utility in PvP).[/quote]
Yeah, I buy that. That was indeed the stated reason in the interview for having kicks in there, despite how stupid and accidentally triggerable they are. Obviously, kicks are hilarious when they actually work.
Speaking of pointless player expression for expression’s sake, I am sorely tempted to obtain a Porcine Shield and wield it in multiplayer. Just look at the investment needed to obtain it, the item description, and its absolutely horrible stats. It’s completely absurd and insane for anyone to be using this shield and therefore I must do it.
wait why
did ctrl+f for parry/kick/shield/etc because i’ve read the thing before but don’t remember that tidbit and nothing came up
edit:
oh…okay? i mean if that’s the only reason that can be solved a million ways other than just not having them. i don’t really feel like this has been a problem for me since the very early hours of dark 1 and i use them a fair amount with success. they’re certainly a wrinkle worthy of breaking up roll/circlestrafe monotony and/or waiting for the opponent (AI especially because there’s no conscious tactical element to their decision) to decide to stop blocking some day.
they’re also good for resetting combos, breaking up enemy defense patterns, elevation exploitation, and serve as an interesting counterpoint to parries. kicks are pretty rad.
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oh…okay? i mean if that’s the only reason that can be solved a million ways other than just not having them. i don’t really feel like this has been a problem for me since the very early hours of dark 1 and i use them a fair amount with success. they’re certainly a wrinkle worthy of breaking up roll/circlestrafe monotony and/or waiting for the opponent (AI especially because there’s no conscious tactical element to their decision) to decide to stop blocking some day.
[/quote]
OK, it could be solved a million ways but it hasn’t been. Personally I have done probably like 30 accidental kicks while simply intending to R1 over the course of my DkS3 playthrough. That’s out of thousands of R1s so I suppose as a percentage it’s pretty low, but whenever it happens it’s just like my avatar chose not to respect my input and just does whatever he wants in the middle of this intense boss fight, so I really dislike it.
It’s similar to the problem with jump controls that was seen as worth providing a better, less accidentally triggerable option for (which I like – I sometimes jump accidentally still, but at least that’s easy to control just by not stressing out and pressing too hard on the thumbstick). I’d have no problem with it if it was mapped to something obscure, but all I did was walk forward and press R1, so obviously my intent is to attack normally, not have something bizarre happen.
(That reminds me! Another horrible Souls control quirk that should be dead already is the X+sixaxis movement for gestures, although it tends not to come up as much during bosses at least. Who actually uses this??)
Between this, the other Dark games, and BB, I think this may feel like the title with the most… consistent? no, that’s not the right word – maybe coherent – arc to the journey. You have a pretty clear goal right from the beginning with the empty thrones. There’s also perhaps a greater physical, geographic sense of this being a kingdom with outlying landmarks than Lordran or Drangleic. Some of that’s the relatively more forceful linearity to the macro layout. I’m not sure if this coherency is a value, because circuitousness is a theme of these games in more ways than one, but it does seem to be present in a clearer way here, and it’s worth pointing out. Another connection to Demon’s Souls’ design.
That’s what I’m thinking now, anyway, with one throne left, unless there’s a big curveball.
They were revealable this way in Dark Souls too.
Yes.
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99.99% sure that was done to switch things up. I appreciate the idea, but it’s another one of those things in the game that offers something new while undermining the game’s contextual elements. Looking at the action in-game, your character is positioning their body against a wall and magically makes it go away. In the real world, yeah, you pressed a button, but as it’s relayed in the game it seems like your character has psychic powers to make surfaces disappear.
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It was also probably partly a King’s Field throwback/holdover. yeah, perhaps if there were an animation for PCs reaching out to touch the wall or something (that you could cancel, natch) it would have felt less silly. It’s just… less cool than a wall disappearing like smoke with a shimmering effect.
[quote=“diplo, post:437, topic:1250, full:true”]
They were revealable this way in Dark Souls too.[/quote]
Ah, OK, I guess they’ve always been in the category of environment object which is destroyed by rolls. Like the fish women kneeling in front of the Orphan of Kos room. (Was it intended by From that players would roll them all to death while waiting for co-op there, or just a pure coincidence of the coding? It feels so callous.)
Hmm, the Souls series is pretty heavily rooted in classic D&D dungeon crawls, and illusory walls that you have to disbelieve to see past is a thing in some dungeons, so it might be a case of something naturalistic to the fiction that just comes across as very video game-y without additional context.
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lol did I really just come across MEGA ORNSTEIN
and right after the Solaire altar too
What a slam-a-dam combo of dumb
No. MEGA ORNSTEIN is indeed in the game, but it’s not that boss. You’ll come across him later.
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My only hope there is that it’s the most pathetic boss in the game and it acts as a symbolic slaying of a fan favorite.
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