what is the best mareo??? (ranking thread)

I actually prefer SMB to SMB3 because of its purity and focus. The fun and wacky times that happen when you run and jump just seems better when there’s not like very obviously wacky things. I know the weird shit doesn’t seem wacky after you get into it, but I am still averse to it. I don’t like SMW for those same reasons. jSMB2 is a much less accessible game, and it definitely is not valuable on it’s own, but SMB1/2j is probably the best pure SMB package to me.

64 seems to be the most SMB 3D Mario. That’s probably why I never played much of the rest. I had Galaxy when I was still into the Wii. The toy-ness of that one probably was what really started my feelings of apathy towards Nintendo. Odyssey seems to rectify things somewhat, but it might be Mario’s wacky tour instead of the complex dive into simple mechanics. The that toss seems so arbitrary.

Maybe I just expect Mario to be Fun Movement: The Game. Like, I bet I could get behind a Zelda game that played like Odyssey and replaced that hat with a boomerang. I just can’t seem to be into it as Mario.

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I don’t know that there are many mario games I’d enjoy playing in 2017. 3 still, I’m sure. same with 1 and 2j. that’s the canon. 64 I very much doubt. shitty camera and collectibles defined half of gaming for a decade after that game, none of it was good, I can’t imagine 64 is some revelation. sunshine is a cute game that I liked quite a bit in 2003 or whatever. I would still like running around delphino plaza and probably a couple of the more water related levels. beyond that, I don’t know. never liked world. land is a curiosity. I played it a lot when I was a child. yes, it’s weird. no, that doesn’t mean anything. land 2 was a wario game. I also played it a lot when I was a kid. I don’t remember much about it besides the bunny hat. the only mario game I’ve played since sunshine was 3d land, which was fun while it held my attention. that wasn’t for very long, in the end.

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S-TIER
SMB
SMB3
SMW
SM64
SM3DW

A-TIER
SMB2j/TLL
SML
SM3DL

B-TIER
SMB2
SML2:6GC
NSMB
SMS

C-TIER
NSMBWii

NO OPINION/HAVEN’T PLAYED
NSMB2
SMG
SMG2
SMO
NSMBWiiU

Someone get Geist an n64. Legit, last time I played Mario 64 I thought it was going to be a chore, but I had zero problems with cameras. I suspect our understanding of what made shitty cameras was mostly because we played very few videogames with cameras before Mario 64.

I think I can comfortably say that I’ll never go out of my way to play any of the old games ever again. Like I’m probably never going to play 3, World or any of the others again unless I’m someplace and someone thrusts a controller into my hand when the game is already turned on

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watching thread for sleazy’s follow up to the adam sandler post

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SMB2(J), don’t even have to think about it

I could do without the rest, although if I had to include any others I might choose the first and third games

Land 2’s ‘camera’ is too close for the kind of game it is; compared to Land, it’s an example of a desire for Bigger Graphics negatively impacting the overall design

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  1. Mario 3
  2. Paper Mario 2: The Thousand-Year Door
  3. Mario Kart Double Dash!!
  4. Mario World
  5. Mario RPG
  6. Mario
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I never had a problem with the 64 camera, I actually really like that it is mostly manual and that it moves in increments rather than being fluid. I know what Im about to do and it’s typically pretty easy to pop the camera over a notch or two to get it where I really want it.

Master rank for me (assuming multiple players, the best way 2 mario)

NSMB U
World
2 US (w/ saves)
3 (w/ saves)
3D Land
NSMB 2
1
64
Sunshine

64/sun are kind of terrible in a group setting
New super marios prior to U dont feel like real mario games to me for some reason. They feel like well built fan games. I cant get excited about them at all.
The NEW music is just blah.
3D Land is fun but I feel like I need a really even skill match with the others players for it to work very well. and in general I dont thing the 3D ness is used very well. The levels feel flat to me either horizontally or vertically and the extra 3D nuance doesn’t add anything valuable. This isprolly due to the fixed camera you need for 2 player to work without split screen happening. (which I think it should split and re-combine as needed).
NSMB U in a prty setting has worked magically. People are totally willing to deal with the difficulty and solider through sections I never expected them to with deaths causing laughter rather than frustration. I cant get over how well it works.
If I could get NSMB bubble technology into Mario 2/3 and World Id be so stoked Id scream, I’d buy a system for that.

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Yep. I’d add its floaty physics and low enemy density also don’t feel right for the type of game it wants to be.

When Nintendo designed SML2, their idea of adapting a genre for Gameboy seems to mainly to have been to make art readable in grayscale. (Metroid 2 and SML1 show much more wisdom even though they preceded SML2, I’d be curious to hear what happened there.) In Wario Land and DK’94, you can see they had internalized a lot of lessons from the experience.

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I haven’t played a Mareio game for more than a few minutes since Galaxy.

Wario Land because yes, he may have had to throw his shoe but eventually owns the world.

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i don’t really have an honest ranking, but i want to comment on the two bookends.

nsmbu is one of the best games in the series. for some reason each nsmb game kept getting better and better in very clear ways, which is just not normal in video games. a game for the switch might actually threaten to be the best 2d platformer ever crafted, if this trend continues. everyone hates it. i hate everyone. however! i don’t have the slightest clue why such a terrible website like polygon would ever put it anywhere near the top, let alone #1. they are co-opting me and i do not like it. vile creatures.

smb2 (the japanese game) is a huge improvement over smb1 and should always be noted as such. it should never be ignored and should never be called the lost levels under any circumstances. it is super mario bros. 2, the great sequel by the original team that does so many wonderful things. does that make smb3 weird? yes. but it’s a lot less weird than a reskin of doki doki panic, which is effectively a spinoff. not a spinoff like captain toad or luigi’s mansion, but a spinoff nontheless.

oh, actually, also, world is not that great of a game and is significantly inferior to smb3. the downgrade is… stunning. significantly shorter for no particular reason, far less satisfying items, frustrating removal of the item box, special shoutout to that stupid cape, the way they “overhauled” basically every secret in the game is dumb and makes little sense, etc. the only really interesting things about smw are its lovely aesthetic, yoshi i guess, and the utterly insane spin jump. some levels are ok.

oh, actually, also, i’m really sick of people saying sm64 is “outdated” and “doesn’t hold up”. i wish people would stop that. forever. sm64 is a slick and lean speedrun game for slick people, just like banjo-kazooie (the first one).

unfortunately, world says “super mario bros. 4” on the box… japanese version, anyway. it almost said it in the game too. wonder why they removed it.

that is to say, i do not believe any other smb4 will occur. unless you count nsmb. sometimes i count nsmb as smb5.

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unexpectedly, the town themes in Super Mario RPG probably hold up better than the battle themes

I should ask this beyond Despatche: is New SMB Wii U legit that great? The first NSMB was fine as a 2d Mario game after years of not having one but I barely even finished the Wii one as it both felt like a game without any kind of creative spark and has physics that feel notably worse than was present in any of the non-New SMB games. I hadn’t even given the Wii U take a thought in all these years and likely never would have if not for some mentions in here.

So yeah, is it great for people who like the NSMB series, or is it great even for people who don’t think much of the rest of said series?

i’m not attempting to rudely answer your question anyway, i just wanted to comment on a few specific lines.

nsmb vs nsmbw. i find that a little puzzling because the overwhelming consensus is the opposite. i have also always experienced the opposite. i actually like nsmb, but wii is a huge leap over it in pretty much every way you can think of, a much bigger jump than from wii to u.

the last line. there are a lot of people who simply disagree with nsmb’s entire premise and hate all of the games unconditionally; i don’t think these people would ever enjoy u no matter how much one were to beg them to. there are a lot of people who hated nsmb but loved wii; these people would probably love u.

from the above, you will probably dislike u because of your dislike of wii. then again you may think it fixes the problems you’ve had with wii. i’ve heard it both ways.

Oh, I didn’t mean to exclude you, you just happened to write up your thoughts the post above so I felt that you were already spoken for.

NSMBW is likely the better game but that came out maybe a few years after NSMB, which itself was the first 2d Mario platformer in over a decade. After that much time I was just glad to have a new Mario game in that style, while with the Wii one I was no longer starving if that makes any sense.

The thing about New Super Mario Bros. for me is that it was what broke games for me. Playing NSMB made me believe I hated video games. I started to think I had outgrown games because surely, NSMB was one of the best games ever according to everything on the internet.

NSMB is a game filled with gimmicks that uses none of them. The game’s one new solid addition to it’s move-set, the wall-jump, is used shockingly little. At it’s best it’s a less good version of SMB3. And SMB3 is pretty much the pinnacle of what you can do with SMB3 without adding anything.

Playing Cave Story made me believe in games again, fortunately. And I respect NSMB for being so bad that it made me completely reevaluate how I saw the games press, game design, and my entire life.

I believe there is no game that deserves the bottom of a Mario list more.

Anyways, games that are not NSMB are good. I dunno about the other ‘new’ series because NSMB destroyed me.

My top games personally are 64, 3D Land, and the original Super Mario Brothers. Everything else is pretty much just varying levels of good stuff, with a lot of diversity in why it’s good. Liking SMB3 more than World is something I disagree with, but respect.

Mario is good.

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The only NSMB games I’ve played are the Wii one and the Luigi one, and I had perfectly good times with both. They both struck me as being inventive and reasonably well designed. Most levels would establish a conceit and clearly iterate on it over the course of the stage, in a similar clockwork-like manner as the modern 3D games. The two games were a bit lacking in terms of aesthetics and overall ambition, but I nonetheless enjoyed them enough to play through (most of) them solo (though 3 is the optimal number of players).

(The DS NSMB title looks pretty boring from everything I’ve seen, although I’ve heard it has an extra mode that removes the ability to scroll backwards (like the original SMB). Does it improve anything?)

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I second the “NSMBU is fantastic” opinion. In my list, I didn’t have it ranked to high, but that’s just because the top 2/3 of Mario games are all kinda equally fantastic, to me. It could easily have been much higher, depending on my mood. I’m gonna try and give my sell of U, which is good in a very particular way that is not very common in videogames.

The thing about NSMBU is, it doesn’t have too much new stuff. The powerups i THINK are all t he same as before, except for the new Flying Squirrel suit, which is perhaps the best flying powerup in the entire series (it has two distinct uses, which both have weird, nuanced angles, and are super frictive and interesting to use well). It might not have any new enemies or level elements at all, though I could be wrong. So what does it have? Well, unlike Mario 3, or Mario World, or Mario 1 or 2, or earlier NSMB games, it has everything. It seriously contains nearly every single enemy, platform, and geometric concept ever put into a Mario game, even the One Good Thing from NSMBWii (the rolling ground pieces).

So what does it do? It takes this huge toolbox of every possible tool in the series, and mashes them up in every way possible, in combinations that have mostly never been seen before! Now, for otherh games, this would serve a purely aesthetic fucntion, or be just fanservice (Musou games come to mind—look, it’s all these things you like! in one game!), but every enemy in a Mario game has distinct mechanical properties, and–more interestingly–were made for games with very specific movement options, so mixing them up in a game with different physics and moveset produces results that are intriguing at worst, absolutely INVIGORATING at best. It’s pure geometry.

Another positive quality of NSMBU is, its levels are often more focused than those in, say, SMB3 (and certainly more than in World). Whereas both of those games could sometimes be cluttered, each U level is often composed of only a few discreet elements. A great example of this, and a level which made a very strong impression on me back in the day, is in the Water world.

There’s a level in the Water world, which is almost entirely made of the following indivisible elements:

  • skeleton
  • red key
  • score thing
  • magic door

Er, let me try that again.

  • Water
  • Platforms
  • Spike-ball Pirahna Plants (the kind from 3, that shoot a spike ball up and down, NOT moving themselves)
  • Flying Cheep Cheeps
  • occasional water spouts (u can “ride” them up to a solid surface on top)

That’s it! Now, think about how these things move. Cheep Cheeps of course fly through the air in large, low-angle arcs. While the spike pirahnas are themselves an obstacle, while also making t he spike ball go up and down vertically. I feel like, once the designers got the idea to put these two enemies in the same level, it’s easy to see how they were able to find cool ways to combine those shapes, along with the wildcard water spouts.

The whole game is like this! Level after level of totally-new permutations of previously-existing mario stuff, requiring your brain to figure out new ways to navigate levels.

If NSMBU has a problem (aside from aesthetics and music which are serviceable at best, and I’m too tired to really parse my feelings regarding), it’s that the levels are still too long and World-esque. As in, they have checkpoints, unlike Mario 3, which does not have checkpoints, which is why it’s the best Mario game. Despite my gushing about each level’s conceptuatl simplicity, they still often go on too long, and they do tend to throw in some extra thing toward the end to spice things up for a climactic finish, which sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t. Luigi U, however, does NOT have this problem.

WeegeeU’s premise was that, by giving every level a strict 100-mario-second time limit, you’d encourage all players to play like speedrunners! Except, frankly, they also made the levels so short to compensate, that the time limit is hardly an issue. So, the idea of every level being a tough race against the clock, just doesn’t really happen at all. Which you COULD say, is a fundamental failure of the game to succeed at its own premise. EXCEPT: the fact that the levels are shorter instantly makes them about 50x better. It’s everything that U did well, but even better, and with no bloat. And Luigi’s physics are extremely refined and fun to wrangle with.

So basically, while lacking basically any back-of-the-box, bullet-point “innovations,” Mario and Luigi u are games of pure craftsmanship, reconfiguration, and iteration. They’re meticulous in a good way, and also have a fuckin bajillion levels.

OH I FORGOT: the bosses are pretty weak, especially the final bosses (extra noticeable compared to the incredible final battle of 3d land, released the previous year).

EDIT: lol, I’d opened up a mario wiki to find the water level I mentioned above, to make sure I was describing it correctly, and it turns out it is from Luigi U! So uh, for the Mario U version of that level, imagine the same thing but with more unnecessary stuff in it, and a bit too long.

EDIT: here just watch the damb video

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