The Goonies: Is it good enough?

It’s another of those games so swimming in ideas that it’s hard to make sense of, and its major criticism seems to be that it’s wrong to be so inscrutable.

Which… almost seems offensive to me? Like, what else are you going to apply that to?

I still don’t know what to make of the game, so I’m not going to plant my flag and argue for it except that it has always seemed strange and interesting and intentional – and that the basis for dumping on it feels wrong in principle.

Every work of art is sort of a bottled perspective, and I find that the way one responds to art tends to be very much the way that one responds to other people.

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i’ve only seen a video of someone else play friday the 13th, but the fact that the whole game seems to be about perform a large and specific magical ritual is really interesting

even if the game itself is (or at least looks like) no fun to play at all

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The thing about that game is that is completely succeeded as a horror game when I was a kid because man if it didn’t fill us all with dread whenever Jason made an appearance.

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Maybe only the Jaws NES game also had a Sprite that could so easily induce dread.

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https://indiegamesplus.com/2018/10/friday-the-13th-killer-puzzle-is-filled-with-homicidal-sliding-puzzles

This isn’t what I meant, curse you, Monkey’s Paw!

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This is my pitch for a cinematic Friday the 13th reboot, damnit who stole my ideas

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Friday the 13th and Jaws both rule. When I hopped online and discovered they were “universally” hated, i was thrown. I don’t know what elementary school the internet went to but both games were considered fire on my playground.

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And so was Faxanadu. Inner city Detroit kids were hungry for Falcom.

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I love this thread.

Opacity and inscrutability in books, games, and films rules. I’ve alwasy felt guilty for liking these sorts of things because my friends often respond to them with outrage. I was called pretentious a lot in high school, and I get it. Like, how can I tell someone that Gravity’s Rainbow is one of my favorite books without sounding like I want to elevate myself. The truth is, I don’t think I understand it any more than the other guy; I’m just attracted by what confuses me.

I still haven’t played Goonies though…

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this makes me feel like a romhack that retcons this into the Persona series would probably be pretty well received

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Living with confusion is so exciting and scary feeling for me too, and it’s so much more threatening in games because your progress but the promise of watching things unfold and getting a peek into the how is so enticing. It’s sorcery, pure and base

–dangerous statements ahead–
I believe media designed to induce confusion and remain ambiguous is niche and always niche because it speaks to media experts; once you have a deep grasp of semiotics and literary forms you lose the challenge of learning and understanding and start to seek it again. But if you’re not conversant in the media, if being lost doesn’t mean that it’s intentional in this object but means that you don’t know enough, that you are doing something wrong, it’s unpleasant anxiety rather than a playful anxiety, a game you’re riding.

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I mean. Faxanadu is the best. Clearly. People don’t like it?

I find it notable that Nintendo handled the US publishing, and yet still left in more cigarettes than every other NES game combined. They’re not even hidden or subtle. In the first five minutes you’ll be choking out the window.

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That’s a very nice, conversant way to say things I’ve been saying grumpily and dismissively for years.

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I feel like this is a good month for this thread. The genre (as it might be) lends itself well to horror overtones, what with Friday the 13th and Monster Party and Ghost House and Dr Chaos.

I went into this above, but gosh, I like Dr Chaos so much. It’s so awkward. And so terrifying.

I recall showing it to Brandon Sheffield when I finally picked up my own copy, and he was pretty fascinated himself. He doesn’t much get with NES games, coming more from the 16-bit generation, but this was strange enough to hold his interest.

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this is a perhaps accidental restatement of something brian stableford described in talking about fantasy fiction; that there is commodified and literary fantasy, and literary fantasy has an actually parasitic relationship with commodified fantasy; the commodified form teaches people how to read the form, and the literary form takes that fluency and perverts it. No one who isn’t already familiar with the form has much chance of understanding the literary version of it, it is negatively overwhelming because the reader lacks the key genre understandings needed. It is the commodified literature, lacking in merit but formulaic and polished, that creates fluent readers, and it is a minority of these readers that become fed up with the commodified form that then seek out challenging, ambiguous works.

PS: This is also why literary fic writers trying to write genre fic often end up with works that are flaccid, overdidactic, and inexpert when it comes to the different set of literary forms. Cormac McCarthy’s the Road, for instance is just a generic rehashing of post-apocalypse stories we have encountered dozens of times before. It has no hope of pushing the boundaries forward because its trying to create a homonculus without the midwifery of the attendant genre knowledge. Sam Delany did a much more graceful job explaining this.

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The cover art for Dr. Chaos used to freak me out. Looking at it now, I love how they must have skirted Nintendo censors by putting a broken flask in that central pool of “blood.” It’s clearly coming from the knife welding hero’s wrist but they threw in this deniablity that is just a red sciencey solution that spilled.

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And so everyone just writes off Peter Capaldi.

That’s well stated and I agree.

Except The Road really works for me, not as a post-apocalyptic or zombie genre work but as a pure canvas for his common apocalypticism.

Topical?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxzwBgtMy1k

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Following a Twitter discussion about Simon’s Quest:

And also, it’s… like, the game signals very clearly where to go next at nearly every turn. There’s never a point when it asks you to search for some random thing buried somewhere arbitrary. It always flows straight to the next point… unless you as a player complicate things.

MIND YOU ALSO at the time the game came out, everyone also knew the solutions because they were discussed at length in videogame magazines, e.g. that infamous issue of Nintendo Power.

Anyone complaining came at the game later, probably through emulation.

The decontextualization that emulation brought to older games has done them as much of a disservice as the bad faith ranting of early Internet comedy sites.

Like. Instead of earnestly engaging with the game and going, okay, what am I missing here, we get this knee-jerk response of “wtf is this? this sux.”

Simon’s Quest has a really cool design, for the most part. All it might need is a couple of extra clues for the weirder things—even vague clues, e.g. suggesting that the crystals might help with dead ends if you messed around a bit—and I would find it hard to criticize.

(And yeah, that is basically every crucial hint to complete the game right there: if you’re facing a dead end, maybe mess around with a crystal and see what happens.)

There’s other weird, mystical stuff like the garlic in the cemetery and there are illusory or breakable walls that you need to figure out, but outside the mansions that all is optional. It just enhances the game’s sense of potential and mystery, making the imagination work.

The Goonies II is even more opaque, but both games were renowned at the time, and still seem to be by people who played them then and haven’t been plugged into online Gamer culture since, as stand-out, inspirational games that implied so much more than they showed.

The Sublime.

There has been lots of talk about Rebecca Sugar’s dedication to the Sublime, and I think this has always been a key component for me to 8-bit games in particular. It’s inherent in their presentation and the compromises they make to communicate. Add in bugs and deliberate secrets?

Like, minus worlds and Metroid out-of-bounds areas and all these other mystical, reality-breaking glitches, and all the hidden things in Zelda including a whole second quest where the rules of reality are different – they all indicate some greater unknown and unknowable order.

A game like Simon’s Quest or Goonies II, that steers into the skid of the mysterious, it plays into the communicative fabric of the medium and the expectations of its contemporary audience. They weave a bigger spell, of a familiar thread.

The mystical, it gets lost on those who just want to categorize and appraise rather than engage as a participant in a conversation.

This is What Art Is, and why it has historically been considered divine.

It works on one’s imagination and understanding, and encourages one to see what is not but could be.

All of which adds a new angle to that discussion of Goonilikes, a while back.

(I guess also, uh, http://aderack.com/builder/ )

Much of post-emulation discourse has been about reframing pre-SNES games as linear prototypes for SNES games and judging them on how refined their ideas are compared to what would come later, rather than appreciating them by the inscrutable bounds of their original canvas.

It’s a very White Man kind of history.

I am not even an atheist, right. I don’t find religion worth discussing to the point of arguing against it and find that kind of framing absurd. Like, it’s not a relevant question. But it is no mistake that art has always been tied to the divine, in pretty much every culture.

The awe and wonder that people associate with the holy, the very term inspiration, is wound up in this realization of a world beyond the practical, knowable status quo around us.

Art is important, yo.

Art is political.

Art is life.

Art is the future.

Art is compassion.

(And Gamers are anathema to all of that.)

All of which is to say, I now better understand why Vs. The Goonies is to my mind the ideal archetype of 8-bit game design.

And why I’ve always considered it so, for lack of a better frame, holy.

ETA:

Simon’s Quest is one of the best NES games, and one of the best Castlevanias. It has a lot to say. Much of which is in what it doesn’t say. Which is why it’s invisible to people who worship square pixels.

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