Never really cared for the first Metal Gear.
Metal Gear 2 was swell.
I’ve replayed Metal Gear Solid many times over the years, sometimes on portables, sometimes on home consoles.
I enjoy it a lot.
Metal Gear Solid 2 was a great sequel, and weird and fun to think about.
More fun to think about then to play. I replayed it a few times back when I first had it, but have never played it all the way through since.
Metal Gear Solid 3 felt a lot like Metal Gear 2. When I first played it, it felt regressive.
It really doesn’t seem interested in doing what Metal Gear Solid, and Metal Gear Solid 2 were doing. I respect it more in retrospect then I did when I was playing it. It seems like a game that would be fun to replay, but the one time I tried I didn’t get into it. It’s a good game, but it’s not my Metal Gear.
Metal Gear Solid 4 was the sequel to Metal Gear Solid 2 that I had been waiting for.
It felt silly and fan-service-y and I loved it. I got a PS3 just for the sake of playing it, and I played through it all in one weekend. It felt like the conclusion to the series that I had been waiting for. I have not replayed it.
Metal Gear Solid V didn’t look interesting, and is a game in a series that I felt already had it’s conclusion. Haven’t played it, and I’m not especially interested in it.
Gotta admit, I’m not 100% sure about my vote re: Gimmick! vs. Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
In Gimmick! I’ve only got as far as the robot boss that reminds me of the Metal Gear Mk. II but I was constantly marveling at all the technically impressive one-offs and unnecessarily generous details (like those enemies you can flip over but their legs are still moving and act as a conveyor belt when you hop on, or the way that dinosaur you can ride on turns its neck to look at you or the way you can rush to that boss on the ship and catch it off guard before its little alarm clock buddy can wake it up or all the cleverly hidden secrets that seduce you into mastering the star’s physics, etc. etc.) It can be a bit too hostile, but it’s clearly something the creators were almost obsessively passionate about and there’s nothing quite like it. The art style is near-perfect (sharper than S3&K idk if I’d say better…) and the music rules (at least as good as S3&K). It’s a brighter and tighter gem than S3&K and I’ll definitely be playing it again to get better and maybe even get that good ending.
S3&K also has a really good, uh, “good” ending though and earlier this year I did what I was never able to do as a kid and got that ending. The game feels like this colossal crescendo of a zeitgeist that maybe has more to do with nostalgia than I care to admit. At the time, it felt like an unparalleled cartoon epic. I spent probably hundreds of sheets of paper recreating the game world and then expanding its universe in collaborative comics with friends. The actual story is simple and well told and better than anything that came later in the series because the characters are restricted to miming their intentions and it’s effective. In that opening scene with Tails flying the plane, Super Sonic skimming the water and Knuckles eventually showing up, the game hits the ground running. Reaching the Death Egg for the first time as a kid and seeing all the baddies rocket out of it before you have to face them is a vivid memory. It does have its slow points and bullshitty puzzles/gimmicks(!) and in some ways, I prefer the comparatively smoother sense of momentum in 2. If Gimmick! is a bright and tight jewel, Sonic 3 & Knuckles is a wonderfully wonky geode.
It’s like comparing an entire season of a beloved Saturday morning cartoon show (filler episodes, commercial breaks and all) with a small animation studio’s lovingly crafted television special that aired maybe once or twice after midnight. My 11 year-old self is pulling me in the direction of Sonic (and I think 1-3 are good and iconic enough to deserve some kind of win here) but I recognise Gimmick! as something to treasure as an adult game liker. Consider me undecided, I guess.
I liked the 3DS MGS3 for backporting some of the new third-person controls from MGS4 into 3. The westernized control scheme loses that particular meticulousness and convoluted Monster Hunter claw nature of the original controls but really liked that it doesn’t make my hands cramp up over time. I always liked crouchwalking as a midpoint between walk and crawl stances for flexibility and cover. It is probably not the most playable or performant version of the game and it doesn’t have the ps2 modes but I appreciate it for its uniqueness if nothing else and will probably be the weirdo version that I come back to the most.
I feel similarly but also feel like the incoherence is kinda symptomatic of Kojima’s style. Death Stranding echoed a lot of MGS2 for me in that it was a theme cluster and bloated with ideas. Kojima’s bookshelf in game form. In some ways this makes these games interesting to turn over in your head but I ended up finding them frustrating in comparison to more focused efforts.
The 9/11 stuff feels kinda whatever given that it was not the only media property to feature an attack on New York leading up to 9/11 and is one of many that had to self-censor. Perhaps it reads differently for an American audience given that it is extremely concerned with American settings and characters but it’s hard to say what is there as an homage to Kojima’s favourite fiction and what is there to make a statement about something. Maybe this is what keeps the interest for many but for me the game pulls in too many directions and I am disinclined to be generous towards it.
Jeeeze maybe I will have to get the cia for MGS3. Or buy it on vita?
This convo is going in silly circles between there are lots of things said in Kojima games and no there are not.
Those games are absolutely full of ideas and contradictions it’s great. My recent playthrough of MGS1 was filled with thoughts. It’s an incredible piece of work as much as MGS4 is a failure. And V is A VIDEO GAME and well we all forget about Peace Walker.
I thought really highly of MGS3 at release but it is very very long. I’ve had several failed playthroughs in the recent years. I think the sanding off edges and streamlining that MODERN VIDEO GAME delivers a lot of the thrills MGS3 does and less clumsy menus. So much of that game is ludonarrative through menus. If I wanted to stare at menus I’d try to find a menu to watch on Amazon Prime for two hours before just watching The Dark Knight again confirming myself a plebe.
Much as a lot of this forum was the proper age to play Undertale and Yume Nikki I feel like I was the proper age to play MGS2. I think it is the MGS having replayed with new eyes I got the least new information out of. Maybe I’ll replay it again. Everything with Arsenal Gear is cool as heck.
Also the first time I played 3 I went full Rambo with a M60 and shirtless and I had never even seen Rambo: First Blood Part 2. I didn’t get an exciting sniper battle because I just ran up and shotguned that old man.
Anyways these games are not fighting each other so I gotta make a seperate post about my feelings on these matchups.
Anyways despite my previous complaint I am voting for gimmick because S3&K can be on the bottom of this list. There are 2 other 2D Sonic games.
Some people throw spahgetti against the wall to see what sticks. Kojima hurls his whole brain (which may or may not be part pasta). I deeply appreciate and prefer the resulting hodgepodge of geopolitical gene-horror, the jumble of pop culture jargon, the anti-war/pro-what? soup of sensations to “making a point” and squeezing the player’s progress into that point. I think it suits interactive fiction (maybe an action game even more so) better than a series of missions that mould A Message (at least as far as the games I’ve encountered go, which may not be saying much (I keep thinking about Disco Elysium which I know nothing about but really want to play and wonder how intellectually articulate it may or may not be (probably way better than Kojima’s writing but will I like the gameplay as much?))). Maybe there are people who could pull it off. Probably. Kojima’s not one of them but there is meat to chew on even if it’s not prime cut stuff and his whole shtick of acknowledging “you are playing a video game” and yet not cheapening the investment people have in these characters and themes is actually impressive. It might be fair criticism to say that he vomits too many cutscenes upon the player but there is just as much if not more attention to gameplay detail (footprints, shadows, moths, looking up and getting shat on by a seagull) that enhances my enthusiasm for Video Games in general. I certainly don’t think he’s some genius philosophical or otherwise but compare him to people like idk Ken Levine, David Cage, heck, even people I like, like Shigeru Miyamoto or George Romero and he really is something special (at least his games are, I don’t want to ignore all the people it takes to make Metal Gear Solid games, bless them).
I kinda vomited that out in one go but long story short, Metal Gear Solid games 1-3 are really cool and the world would be a poorer place without them.
I tried Spelunky for like an hour and could not figure out what grabbed folks. Maybe I just hate the artstyle (that is true!) Really want to play Elsium!!!
Spencer Mansion v Big Shell
SBCon2017 proved REmake is the TVGGOAT. I don’t forget.
4side versus the Otherside
There’s a lot to love about Earthbound. But I love how abrasive and uncomfortable Silent Hill is. Too be overtly myself: I am an adult and maybe I don’t need to play as a child anymore. My own life is the adventure of a lifetime. So yeah stick me in rusty hell dimension where the walls scream and everything is dying.
Ampersand Knucks vs Exclamation Point
A thrilling switch I am voting for Gimmick because there are enough Sonic Games on the list. S3&K can be at the bottom who cares.
Nocturne versus Return
I never got far in Nocturne! It has never grabbed me. It’s also like 80 god dang hours long. SMT games should be much much shorter. The battle system doesn’t deserve 80 hours of my time and that is like most of the game.
Snake Eater versus Turtle Stomper
Never Vote For A Mario
Your Not Alexander vs They Look Just Like Us
I love Godhand but gotta go with one of the few multiplayer games on the list. I’ll use this space to say weird they never brough back the centipedes from 2 which really creeped me the heck out.
Wario vs DRUGS
Dang this is hard. Do I go for the most game or the most passive experience. I’ll decide at the last second!
Fear The Old Blood vs which Full Houser Are You
I did all the things in Bloodborne and it’s great but gonna give it to the classic JRPG series that I don’t even like. It feels right even if DQ for the most part is a slog to me. I think DQ3 having the entire world of DQ1 in it is cool as heck. Love when sequels do stuff like that. Show how worlds change.
Mother 3 vs FZero GX
GX is like the perfect video game. Maybe I will replay Mother 3 with my fluent Japanese and solve the mystery of falling in love with this series. It hasn’t happened yet. Which makes it more baffling I have Mother 2 and 3 on my shelf but not Fzero GX. Like what’s wrong with me. I haul Mother 3 across multiple cross-continent moves and have yet to open this copy. Wow did I buy this copy 10 years ago is anyone still reading this?
I have played Spelunky and like I kinda get it but I don’t GET IT and i probably never will. it’s not really my thing. that is OK. I want to play Disco Fun Times so that gets my vote.
ResiEvie '02 vs meta gurps so-lit 2
I have never finished either of these, but MGS2 is one that I mean to finish some day, so! Also it seems to be a really big influence on a lot of other stuff i like, so.
stuck on this earth vs hills don't talk
two more games i have not finished because i am bad at finishing things. but I like silent hill more. but i won’t be mad if earthbound wins. it’s fine. i might someday finish both of these. i dunno.
knuck if you buck 3 vs wrestling persona
I’ve come to realize, over the course of this whole voting thing, how little i give a shit about most platformers. and this one holds, because like, i don’t really give a shit about either of these. I like Sonic 2, but I think that is more because it was the Sega lust game for me for so long as a kid. But I also enjoy it a lot.
But that hooking another cartridge in thing? OK that rules. I don’t even need to care about the game.
demon lad in inverse tokyo vs rad lads and lass on that 'vator
Nocturne is gonna win this one, but the rad lads/lass doing action movie shit is gonna get my vote for true underdog status. Nocturne is cool tho.
Gravity's Rainbow fanfic vs maa reeee oh
We don’t need another list topped by a mario or a nintendo thing so Kojima’s love letter to Pynchon’s WW2 book is getting my vote and i don’t even care that i am voting for two metal gearz.
fists through faces forever vs look there are fucking frogs and robots crushing this city forget the bugs already
I am voting for EDF5 even though I own a God Hand shirt. I contain (nerd) multitiudes.
proto wii mini game collection vs pretty good art project
I am being mean to Wario Ware. I like Wario Ware. it’s fun. but man LSD is neat as hell and i like that it exists.
cthulu souls: menstruation edition vs dairy queen the third
this one is pretty rough for me. i love bloodborne, and how people will avoid talking about the blood so much, and how weird and fraying the whole world of the game ends up being by the end. But Dragon Quest is one of the few game series that will forever have its nostalgia hooks in my brain. IT’S GONNA BE ROUGH TO PICK
the dream of perfect speed forever vs a game i should play some time
there’s not enough Sega I love this week, so this coming in here saved the day. Yes, it is one of the 18 Nintendo games oh this list, but I won’t hold that against it.
it is symptomatic, but the symptom functions differently in different games. mgs2 is a 7 hour long swiss watch with an extremely unified structure and style, where the incoherence (i think) performs a specific and localized function within the highly coherent, self-reflexive whole. death stranding has a fantastic basic system and loop, but it’s attached to 40-60 hours of fundamentally incoherent sub-wikipedia skim glosses, dull forced setpiece diversions, miserable tv drama writing and ugly stylistic shifts with no real shape underlying it, just one thing after another. “do you like this?”
I booted this up on the new 3ds small non-XL/LL model to see if what I typed up based on my memory of that version comported to reality. The aiming is assigned to the nub (c-stick/would be second circle pad on the circle pad pro attachment) and does not feel good to do at all honestly. The in-game statistics say I had cleared this 3 times on easy but from newly dredged up memories after actually playing the thing again I had managed to do that with minimal aiming, just defaulting to Snake’s neutral aiming position as often as possible, about chest-height for a standard enemy guard with the infinite non-lethal ammo EZ gun.
I withdraw what I said earlier and realistically it only makes sense if you have the circle pad pro attachment which is only available for the pre-“new” no-nub-having models. And if you liked crouchwalking and the particular over the shoulder quirks, reticules, friendly QTE prompts and overall feel of MGS4/PW’s third-person it’s all there, ported into good old Snake Eater. It also lets you carry over collectibles to any difficulty (but limits you to only one save file that records all of your accumulated progress, ranks, camos and cheat items obtained) which is good for a weird obsessive like me wanting to “build up” cheat guns on easy mode then carry them into harder modes to see how far I can get by cheesing through.
If you turn off circle pad pro mode, your aiming switches to the face buttons (i.e. aim direction upward mapped to X/the top face button, down to B etc) a la Peace Walker on psp, which I believe would be more doable than nubbing it on a “new” 3ds. Also aim stance/fire is moved from the comparatively tiny ZL/ZR shoulder buttons back to L and R which really works better for my hands. Unfortunately/annoyingly, you are forced to use gyro controls to balance on the Dolinovodno rope bridge and this might have also turned up later on. I don’t think it can be turned off but maybe there was an option I was missing somewhere. Maybe the 3ds’ system menu would let you disable the sensors, then the game would just read standard button inputs?
Ergonomically you may be better off with the vita as a system that works better for my weird hands than the 3ds, but, afaik, it is a straight port from the HD Collection release. I believe it makes use of the back touchpad for some actions that previously needed L2/R2 and I’m not sure how well that works in practice.
