Good thing we don’t have to choose between them (yet!)
2 Likes
2 Likes
almost every matchup in this round seems tailor made to force me to make a decision about games that are extremely important to the rest of the forum but that i don’t care at all about
really looking forward to this one
4 Likes
I’m gonna have to write up my thoughts on 2 vs 3 in more detail later (possibly when they meet in a bracket). I can buy a lot of the arguments for why 2 is a special game but playing it is just a miserable experience (not even because gameplay). Conceptually 2 is interesting but a lot of this interest relies on a close comparison to 1 which is a more atmospheric game and contiguous experience and is similarly driven by interesting ideology but it did it earlier so its better(?). It’s the first game where I really felt Kojima’s tendencies would immensely benefit from an editor, or at least some kind of ‘focuser’ to just get to the point. This isn’t even a problem of too much text, the waffling of a lot of its messages I think undercuts its bite and moments that should be compelling like the New York attack are stopped dead for mysterious keikaku time. I really do not enjoy MGS2 as an experience but I think it was interesting when it came out, less so in retrospect.
spelunky is good, dumb fun. i have no idea what disco elysium is.
resident evil remake is scary, but most of its scares are, obviously, remakes of already existing scares. the colonel ai’s breakdown, and the ufo story in particular, is a scare that stands on its own strtength, and more importantly, wouldn’t have worked anywhere near as well in any medium besides videogames
earthbound is boring and ugly and i hate it. silent hill is full of mystery and terror and late 90s rainy day gloom
sonic 3 and knuckles is a game that shows how to make a grand saga out of a linear platform game, and how to tell a videogame story without cutscenes or dialogue. gimmick is technically impressive though, to be fair?
never played nocturne, and elevator action returns is a formidable opponent
super mario bros is important and all, but mgs 3 is a better and more interesting game. i’m voting for two metal gear solid games this round? crazy
oh shit i dunno.
i’m going with warioware. maybe if i’d spent more time with lsd in the past, i’d be voting for that, but i haven’t.
bloodborne is really really good. never played dq3
earthbound is boring and ugly and i hate it. going really fast, though? i like that
1 Like
My first experience with MGS2 started before and finished within a week of Deepwater Horizon. I beat it on 4/29/2010.
MGS3 takes the Patriots stinger and answers it with the truth — the world is this way because people made it this way, and they used money and systems of power to make change feel impossible.
3 Likes
the true metal gear solid 3 of the mgs trilogy isn’t even snake eater, it’s revengeance. snake eater is the backdoor pilot to the big boss spinoff series.
also stealth being harder in 2 is good because magical knock out abilities in games are generally bad. like superhero comics, they build unrealistic possibility spaces for nonviolence in peoples imaginations. ideally it should be sneaking as much as you can until it’s no longer possible, then onto lethal force without the game penalizing you for it (this is why the new wolfensteins are actually the best “stealth” games).
Also unlike 3, 4 and 5, in 2 there’s less instances of you stuck using a rinky dink tranq gun the whole game for the “best” outcome while your character suddenly switches to and shows off their cool .45 in all the cutscenes that they obviously should be using anyway, because your using your lethal handgun more because there’s lots of drones flying around for you to shoot down. another visionary glimpse of the future in 2.
3 Likes
In practice the fine line of pressure sensitivity between knocking someone out and murdering them is appropriate risk in MGS3 but I don’t think that was intentional.
1 Like
SPELUNKY
vs.
DISCO ELYSIUM
I’ve never been a fan of roguelikes so this is an easy win for Disco.
RESIDENT EVIL (2002)
vs.
METAL GEAR SOLID 2: SONS OF LIBERTY
Despite my dismissal of MGS2 I’d probably vote it over RE. Again, it’s a case of the more interesting but not necessarily ‘better’ game winning out. Both good games but I’m gonna go with the Liberian having an existential crisis in New York game.
EARTHBOUND
vs.
SILENT HILL
I think I like the playfully cynical spirit of Earthbound more. Silent Hill is not my favourite of the series.
SONIC 3 & KNUCKLES
vs.
GIMMICK!
No horse in this race so I’ll abstain here.
SHIN MEGAMI TENSEI III: NOCTURNE
vs.
ELEVATOR ACTION RETURNS
Elevator Action is a cool series and I’ve never played SMT however I was convinced to eventually play it by @shelter’s great article on it (linked above). The remaster isn’t out yet so this feels a little unfair but I’ma go Nocturne.
METAL GEAR SOLID 3: SNAKE EATER
vs.
SUPER MARIO BROS.
This is probably the toughest one here. SMB holds up for me on a recent playthrough and MGS3 is probably the most balanced MGS. I’ll go 3 since it had more of an impact on my life overall. The game is similar to Killer7 in my mind since it pushes at the notion of a nation and is littered with unusual scenarios throughout. Snake has to do and experience many horrible things and gets a handshake with a head of state for his troubles. It works as a set-up to a major antagonist of the series and avoids being straightforwardly sad. Nationality, duty, and heroism are all messy concepts that SMB deals with well, but MGS3 does them better generally. I think I also had the most transcendent version of The End boss fight since I finished the fight by noticing the slight glint of the scope (something that felt impossible to properly simulate at the time), slowly adjusting for trajectory, I ended the fight in a single shot after about 50 minutes of straight tracking. It was probably the best executed boss fight in any Kojima game.
GOD HAND
vs.
EARTH DEFENSE FORCE SERIES (DEVELOPED BY SANDLOT)
God Hand all day.
WARIOWARE, INC.: MEGA MICROGAME$!
vs.
LSD: DREAM EMULATOR
I’ll go Warioware here since I think the series is generally underrated and I haven’t played LSD. Warioware’s concept is so cynical but so sensible for a minigame compilation. It makes each microgame fizz with surprise before the realisation of the disposability of each idea washes in only to be swept away by the next game. Faster, faster I consume all games.
BLOODBORNE
vs.
DRAGON QUEST III
I have only played Bloodborne but I will save my vote here until I’ve heard more arguments. Bloodborne is one of my least favourite Souls games and I’m intrigued to find out why Dragon Quest 3 is here (I wasn’t aware it was so well-regarded).
F-ZERO GX
vs.
MOTHER 3
Nintendo never localised Mother 3 and my laziness about emulation has meant I have never played the fan-translation. F-Zero GX is a fucking fantastic racing game and possibly the fastest I have ever done anything in a game. Despite the story mode being insanely hard I have a lot of positive memories of it. Something I’d love to do one day is play the arcade version with the hydraulics (AX?) but until then I just vote F-Zero GX.
3 Likes
It’s just occurred to me that Raiden has fought more presidents on top of Metal Gears than anyone.
I think the tranq option in 3 is really to highlight the point made by The Sorrow regarding the price one must pay to really be a soldier. I agree that relying on tranq makes the game somewhat distorted but no-one is mandating this. Most of my kills were by knife because I fumbled through the controls but it made sense that Snake would dispatch most discoveries with CQC.
The brushes with violence and the much greater need for stealth brings up MGS3’s theme of what you’ll do for your country more regularly throughout gameplay. Raiden does what he’s told which plays into his lack of real agency and naivety in 2 but the moment to moment stuff felt very flat as a set-up. You’re on a self-contained facility and it never feels like Raiden’s presence is really unknown so the tension of stealth is somewhat undercut for me.
3 Likes
SPELUNKY vs DISCO ELYSIUM: have only played a little Spelunky and no DE. however i’m abstaining because i like spelunky but don’t love it, while DE is a game i will almost assuredly love once i get around to playing. the way it models your stats as conflicting thoughts is fucking ingenious to me, and learning about that took the game from “mild interest” to “play ASAP once it’s on sale”
—-
RESIDENT EVIL 2002 vs METAL GEAR SOLID 2 SONS OF LIBERTY: i have never played an mgs game but of the game series i haven’t played, i think i have absorbed it the most by osmosis. 2 in particular is one where ive watched let’s plays and read essays and listened to critical coverage and basically think i Get It. And i think it’s cool! I totally see why it is a classic. i actually haven’t played any kojima games (besides a little boktai), i get the general idea that he has a very specific Thing which is his Thing and there are parts of that Thing which turn me off, but i still Get why people like his Thing. i probably won’t ever play mgs2 but i’m open to others the series (though i think i want the first kojima game i play through to be Death Stranding just because it seems like a real weird one)
im not sure how to judge REmake because i haven’t played it yet, but have played and do love the original game. I think i agree with parker, as beautiful as the spooky haunted house in the remade version looks there’s something particular and strange about the original visuals that gets lost. i think i will give REmake the edge anyway because i know it’s built on the skeleton of a certifiably great game, and i will def play it someday unlike mgs2
—-
EARTHBOUND vs SILENT HILL: there’s a world where i discovered the latter game before the former. maybe it would have made me realize my goth tendencies sooner. but in this world, i gotta go with EB it’s too close to my heart
—-
SONIC 3 AND KNUCKLES vs GIMMICK!: Gimmick! is easily the better platformer and game honestly and i have no problem admitting that even if i suck at it. But S3&K is my favorite sonic and the character sprites and jammin music and cool visual changes between acts and nonverbal storytelling and crunchy sfx and TAILS are all bound up with like, my very identity. wish carnival night zone wasn’t so long + suck though. im gonna complain about it every time the game gets brought up. i don’t even like the music! also the way you have to fight robotnik as tails in marble garden zone is way too hard and fiddly
—-
SHIN MEGAMI TENSEI 3 NOCTURNE FEATURING DANTE FROM THE DEVIL MAY CRY SERIES vs ELEVATOR ACTION RETURNS: sorry EA returns maybe if you let me summon baphomet even 1 time this would have been more competitive
—-
METAL GEAR SOLID 3 SNAKE EATER vs SUPER MARIO BROS.: this is the mgs i would play soonest. the ladder joke is very good and ive listened to that song a lot for having not played the game. any game with a song with a lyric like “CRIME, IT’S THE WAY I FLY TO YOU” definitely has my attention. gonna give it up to the first video game i ever played though
—-
GOD HAND vs EARTH DEFENSE FORCE: abstain fuck me why didnt i buy that copy of god hand for $15 at the local bookstore all those years ago
—-
WARIOWARE INC vs LSD DREAM EMULATOR: this is a weird choice because both of these are games i appreciate for being weird novelties but in very different ways. i think i will give the edge to WWINC because it’s basically a series of playable jokes and they’re cute jokes. LSD is extremely cool but i got bored of actually playing it pretty quickly, Wario Ware games basically dare you to get bored
—-
BLOODBORNE vs DRAGON QUEST III: i really like both of these and it’s another apples to oranges comparison, but I’d go with Bloodborne easily. i don’t even love the mechanics compared to the other soulses (or umm dragon quest) but it’s my favorite setting and plot of them all, it looks so goddamn cool and is this wonderful melange of spooky gothic horror shit that i love. DQ3 is a damn good old school JRPG but it’s an old school jrpg and idk there are other ones of those i like more and other dragon quests i prefer
—-
F-ZERO GX vs MOTHER 3: i like f-zero gx a lot, and mother 3 is probably my least favorite mother game now. it’s a good and snappy jrpg but also the most direct and didactic about its themes, and it doesn’t feel as revelatory to me anymore. We’ve talked before on here about how it’s reflexive and critical of the nostalgic childishness of mother 2; i think i prefer nostalgic childishness though. also the in-your-face transphobia being well-intentioned doesn’t make it any less fucking dreadful lol. i will still choose it though because few other games have made me think more about what it wanted to express, and what i took away from it. And the rhythm combat slaps.
—-
this was a nice breezy round for me tbh, i have positive opinions/impressions on basically all of these games but it was mostly obvious which ones were more my speed
7 Likes
The Gimmick! intro is surprisingly evocative. I love it.
5 Likes
Watching an actual playthrough of Gimmick! I’m inclined to give it my vote.
1 Like
The ability to stand on top of any enemy and your own projectile is pretty inspired, surprised I’ve not seen many copycats. Are there any similar platformers out there?
1 Like
i think the manufacturers do sell a home version of the hardware, but of course it’s still at arcade hardware prices
there’s a very good part about leaving mother 3 as nice but distant memory
3 Likes
gimmick is a prequel to elemental gimmick gear send tweet
2 Likes
Spelunky vs. Disco Elysium
Disco Elysium
Spelunky may be a tight and well designed game, but it ushered in the roguelite, the worst genre.
Disco Elysium is a game about living with and living through failure, about learning to let go of the weight of history suffocating us. DE is a game about navigating a mess of contradictory beliefs in order to understand a corrupt society. It is a game that believes a better future is possible, but only if we unmoor ourselves from the teleological and become something new. It is a game about radical empathy, a game about understanding what makes someone hate, what makes them love, and why they don’t care at all (the most distressing of all!).
It’s also one of the funniest games I’ve ever played, with writing that puts most of the rest of the genre to shame.
Resident Evil (2002) vs Metal Gear Solid 2
Not voting on this one, neither of these games do much for me and there isn’t an option here for pointless contrarianism which is my whole brand when I don’t have an opinion
Earthbound vs Silent Hill
Silent Hill
listening to radio static as I navigate the playstation fog. I love both of these games but I have to go for the obvious underdog. If you want to know my thoughts on Earthbound, just listen to the snexploration squad episode about it.
Sonic 3 & Knuckles vs Gimmick!
Gimmick!
in a clash between two platformers, I have to vote for the one that is good and isn’t fucking sonic
SMT III: NOCTURNE vs Elevator Action Returns
Nocturne
Nocturne is a game whose aesthetic and writing and dungeon crawling sensibilities all work in concert, even if the dungeon crawling could stand to be better.
Metal Gear Solid 3 vs Super Mario Bros
yawn, same rationale as the RE vs MGS2 competition.
God Hand vs Sandlot EDF series
EDF! EDF! EDF!
OK I do think God Hand is revelatory. I played through it 3 times, with my final run being a Kick Me Sign run on Hard difficulty. I earned my bona fides when I say that it’s not a game I will return to, as much delight as it gave me back then. Earth Defense Force is a game series I won’t stop returning to, because it is not only a delight to experience, but it’s a co-op game.
Warioware, Inc. vs LSD: Dream Emulator
LSD: Dream Emulator
A bunch of minigames is fine, but LSD Dream Emulator is a game I played over the course of several months every night for 20 minutes before going to bed and it was such a fine experience. It is not a game to be played to completion, or even to be played in long marathon sessions. It is a game that is best experiences as part of the daily rhythms of life.
Bloodborne vs Dragon Quest III
Dragon Quest III
I don’t like Bloodborne as much as everyone else does. I’ve outlined my criticisms elsewhere and don’t feel like bringing all that into this thread. Dragon Quest 3 has a personality quiz at the start and that was my favorite part of the later Ultima games.
F-Zero GX vs Mother 3
Mother 3
Another competition wherein I love both of the games. I have a feeling F-Zero GX is going to win because it does not have the missteps present in Mother 3, so I have to vote for the flawed gem. Mother 3 is the most No Wave of the Mother series, because it is all about killing your idols. Look, I’m just going to have to quote Nikolai Gogol on this one:
You would prefer not to see human poverty revealed. Why, you ask, what for? Do we not know ourselves that there is much in life that is contemptible and stupid? Even without that, one often chances to see things are by no means comforting. Better present us with something beautiful, captivating. Better let us become oblivious!
Mother 3 keeps us from becoming oblivious. It pulls us back from the oblivion of warm fantasy
13 Likes
The star is like a combination of Mario’s fireballs and a koopa/beetle shell(but safer to interact with).
Trip World is another platformer from Sunsoft, I haven’t played it myself so I don’t know how similar it feels. There are more benign creatures and the ones that are hostile don’t hurt you passively. Also there’s a ball transformation instead of a ball-like projectile.
1 Like