Dissolution is from the folks who did Ground Zero, in case you weren’t already aware.
Was not! That’s interesting.
Also I wanted to say on Scourge of Armagon, I found the third episode much easier than the second. Not sure if I was just at the top of my game or if it was better designed. I always had just enough ammo and even the tough spots were not so tough I had to count on a bit of luck like I did in the second episode. It all felt a lot more manageable overall.
the reckoning was fucking miserable. I’m playing ground zero and I think it’s the best of the bunch, easily much better than the base game and miles away from the reckoning. level design is significantly better, less confusing backtracking, much tighter encounter design. actually difficult, and generally not in a cheap way! and they brought the nailgun back.
it still doesn’t come close to quake II 64 though
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that’s interesting because I loved scourge of armagon but thought dissolution of eternity was extremely middling. but now I’m having a great time with ground zero! something must have changed between them
I finished Ground Zero and The Reckoning, and in the end I think Ground Zero may be the best bit of official Quake 2. It feels equally as ambitious in its looping level design and storytelling as Quake 2, but manages to accomplish a bit more than id was able to. What this results in, I think, is a stronger feeling of place, an intricacy of space that was at times fun to run rat-like through, and of course a slightly greater agony when, like Quake 2, a level or objective sequence starts to feel tedious. Even though I had to (or found myself wanting to) use the waypoint navigator more times than I did in either The Reckoning or Quake 2, I still think the level design was much better in Ground Zero. There were tons of tricky and trap-like enemy encounters with unique composition, so that even if I could always expect to be surprised I could rarely expect to be surprised in the same way. Which says something for a bunch of maps that take as long as Ground Zero does to play through. The arsenal is also greatly expanded, and I put more guns to more use than in either of the other games. It has some new enemies, few of which are worth remarking on, but I liked the spiders that could climb on the ceiling and play dead. I love an enemy that plays dead.
And I expected to hate this thing. Rogue’s expansion for Quake 1 is pretty bad, but I’m surprised to say I’d probably recommend Ground Zero over Quake 2. Still, none of Quake 2 is better than any official release for Quake, so I am only distinguishing Q2 games in shades of “it’s alright.”
Edit: I’m also thinking of turning this Quake 2 thread into a general QUAKE thread. What do you all think?
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You can never have too many Quake threads imo.
I’ve been slowly picking through Dissolution of Eternity. I’m on episode 2 now and I’m three or four levels from finishing it. I like it and I don’t like it.
I like the new weapons for the most part. Two nail guns that fire lava nails, basically higher damage rounds, a grenade launcher that fires grenades that explode into cluster bombs that explode again, a rocket launcher that fires four rockets per round and a plasma gun that is basically a reskinned lightning gun that fires a big blob of high damage lightning/plasma.
There’s a couple of new items/power ups that are neat, like the anti-gravity belt that gives you a low gravity effect for a short while. There’s also a power shield that I think just gives you an armor boost. I want to say there’s something else but I’m not remembering if there actually is.
I like the themes for the levels. The first episode had a kind of runic/wizard theme going that was pretty unique and the second episode is all Egyptian/Altantean themed. It’s a pretty interesting take and one you don’t see very often in a Quake map.
Kind of so-so on the new enemies. There are these wraith things that fly around and take a few too many hits to die and then they explode when they finally do and can kill you that way if you’re not careful. One level had knights and hell knights that were made out of stone and posed as statues which came to life whenever you’d hit the right switch. That was kind of cool. Then there spawns that are green instead of blue but they behave the same as they do in the base game. They suck there and they still suck here. One level had these lava pits where a mini Cthon looking dude would pop out and throw brimstone at you and you had to kill him to open access to the switch you needed to hit to move on to the next part. That was kind of cool too.
Not really liking how the difficulty is balanced here. Episode 1 was tough and episode 2 is even tougher. Lots of cramped quarters and a game flow that has mostly devolved into “enter room, die, reload, enter room again, win, forget to save, enter next room, die, reload back to before the first room” ad nauseum. I want to appreciate the level design though right now it’s a lot of “find the four switches to open the next part of the level, then find four more switches to open the exit”. Just a switch hunt that’s constantly interrupted by having to fight tons of ogres and hell knights and scrags and wraiths.
Sometimes near the end you have to fight one of Quake’s champions or commanders or whatever they’re called. They’re these dudes in Egyptian/Arabian dress who spawn copies of themselves indefinitely until you manage to kill the original. Those are a cool concept but kind of a pain. Once or twice now I had to fight mummies who basically looked like zombies in white mummy tape and they took several grenades/rockets to kill.
I will say it’s very generous with health and ammo. I might be dying and reloading every 20 seconds but I’m not running out of ammo for the most part outside one or two spots so far. So big points in that regard.
I appreciate how it’s constantly messing with you like the one level in these cave or mine type areas that quake and shake at certain points like when you’re trying to do a platforming section causing you to fall. They’re just constantly finding new ways to trick you it’s really something.
So kind of mixed feelings on this one. I’d like it more if it wasn’t killing me every ten seconds and just giving me space to actually play the game and appreciate what it’s trying to do. There are lots of set piece type areas that are cool in the moment but I spend so much time just reloading my latest save that the novelty of each new thing they throw at me doesn’t stick and fades away pretty quickly.
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I finished DISSOLUTION OF ETERNITY and it really is a mixed bag. I feel the levels vary wildly in quality, like one of the designers just couldn’t keep up with the other two.
I could take or leave the new weapons, the cluster grenade is fun but everything else is just more powerful variations of existing weapons, except the thunderbolt which was a bit of a pain to use. New enemies are also whatever.
Anyway, the first half of the first episode ranges from awful to mid, and the second half is pretty solid. I loved the first half of the second episode, but it takes a dive in the second half.
First episode is very medieval/fantasy themed. Lots of traps and and such. Some of the levels are ugly as hell (apart from facades, there are good facades in this expansion), with completely boring architecture and tiny, square corridors to fight in. They ssuccckkkk, despite moments of inspiration here and there. The second half is much more attractive, better designed, and more interestingly designed.
Second episode is much more interesting, with Egyptian themes and levels built around it, like running around a pyramid filled with traps and fighting mummy guardians. There are also a set of levels built around the different elements which I thought was a lot of fun, and they make great use of vertical space. As Mr. Mech said, a lot of these levels involve hitting a certain amount of switches to progress, but I didn’t mind. The level design made it so you didn’t get lost looking for switches, and it just made levels feel like little hubs. No Hexen bullshit with the switch hunting here.
The second half or so is much weaker, and goes back to uglier and less imaginative level design. The final boss is also a joke, so easy to just stay behind him so he can’t attack you.
So yeah, a real mixed bag. Like The Reckoning, it tries to be different rather than just be more Quake, but there are too many dud levels in here and jankiness.
Half a pretty good expansion, and half a pretty bad one imo.
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oh god I have played so much Quake 2 lately. I’ve just finished two units of the new expansion (it really is a new expansion instead of a new episode, more like Dissolution of Eternity rather than Sandy’s Episode 4 in the first Quake). Technically very impressive, and I am enjoying the different feel that the much higher enemy count combat design philosophy is lending this one. Excited to go on but also excited to be done.
I think it will be cool in the future to play through Quake 64 and Quake 2 64 whenever I feel up to it. I skipped Quake 64 back in 2020 when the Quake remaster came out because I got burned out playing all the rest of Quake. It seems I’ll do the same this time with Quake 2 64 lol :'-)
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You’re not missing much with Quake 64, it’s basically just a cut down, blurrier, and more colourful version of vanilla Quake. Quake 2 64 being a very different beast was in response to people being disappointed with Quake 64 after Doom 64 was a brand new game.
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Just finished Dimension of the Past. The ammo/health pickups get a bit better as the episode goes on but you still have to watch yourself and manage your resources. More often than not I’d reach the exit and just take it rather than sticking around to clear the level because I didn’t want to start the next level with no ammo. But it did get pretty good about starting you off each level with some ammo right there for you.
Overall a really good episode. Great level design, enemy encounters and environmental traps. Starts out with the base theme and then quickly shifts to medieval and gradually that blurs into runic/wizard by the end.
I really like the trophy/achievements they came up with for Quake 1. Most of them are completion trophies for finishing the episodes as well as completing them on nightmare (though thankfully they don’t go as far as requiring you to actually clear each level) but they also have a few creative ones like kill a shambler with the axe, finish E1M1 on nightmare without firing shot or get through E4M6 on nightmare without taking any damage. I’m saving those for last and it’s a shame they didn’t include more of those types of challenges.
Meanwhile all the Quake 2 trophies are just finish each episode/unit. No attempt at doing any creative challenges. Did they just not have the time or did they just like playing Quake 1 more that they didn’t mind the added time for testing? You decide.
I’ll return to Dimension of the Machine now. I accidentally wrote over my save file while playing Dissolution of Eternity so I’ll have to start over but I’m more than okay with that.
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my map Nameless Revenge is finally a solid enclosed shape without any gaps meant to be filled in later. I have a lot of thoughts about my process and what I would do differently, but that is for a blog post I am writing on my site. like this map, I hope to have that completed soon. but this is very exciting to me. I am deliberately trying to work much quicker and get at least the building all finished so I can do texturing, lighting and encounter design. really, I’m nowhere near done with the work I expect this thing requires. but I may hit a point where I just leave things as they are so I can apply my new perspective and skills to a whole new project.
i have no plan to do this any time soon, but it would be cool to make a Doom map or try to make a level for the latest Amnesia game.
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I played DEATHMATCH DIMENSION, a new level pack that re-imagines classic DM levels as single-player levels.
It looks FANTASTIC (levels have been expanded and made prettier/switched aesthetics) and I love the concept, but I didn’t like playing it too much. Too many obnoxious moments… throws Shamblers at you constantly which gets old, but worse is when they have a shambler at the back and put a dozen scrags in front, it’s so tedious.
It’s not bad, but not that good either.
Oh, I did like the personality though… secrets always have a cute message from the designer, and there are super secret areas with ghosts that have little chats with you.
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I’ve been meaning to check that out. I always loved those 32 player mashups of the original DM levels that find weird ways to interconnect them. It all feels very dreamlike, finding a new door in an environment you feel like you’ve spent hours and hours in.
Played through CONTRACT REVOKED, and was not a fan.
Has some nice new textures and a few cool moments, but for the most part the level design is so boxy with little flow, and the combat design is very mid. Also you can softlock the boss level, as I found out.
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Back on Dimension of the Machine. I thought Acid Sanctuary was great (and it is) but the map after that, Fading Embers, is even better. THIS is how you do tight corridors.
I love how the start is cramped spaces but you can see the rest of the level in the background where it opens up a lot more. Good foreshadowing. This episode is turning out to be like Warpspasm in terms of overall map size but with much better level design. Like these spaces are huge but each area is still distinct and has its own identity so that you don’t get lost.
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finished BEYOND BELIEF and quite enjoyed it. Very much traditional Quake maps. Good flow and sense of place (especially in the early base levels). Perhaps a bit too horizontal in the design and not quite as hard as I like, but still put on a fun challenge and there are some cool moments. I’d recommend it.
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The way Beyond Belief was framed in the add-on section of the Quake remaster as something like one of the first kinds of fully envisioned custom episodes left me thinking like I had just ate my vegetables after finishing it. It was impressively in the vein of the original levels, which is definitely super commendable for back then.
Also: I finished Quake 2 64 today. The last of my Quake 2 gaming!! God I am through with it all. I could say a lot about individual enemies, weapons, and levels in all of these games… but that’s for later. Quake 2 64 was decent, a fun quick romp through small levels. It really presented some enemies I had come to be very familiar with in new light, for better or worse, like the fucking fliers who beep and melee attack you. Those were bastards in these tight levels!!
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RUBICON 2: A three level mod that feels like a mini-expansion due to a bunch of new textures and even some new enemies (including a very cute robot).
It’s all tech-base stuff, but the textures make it all look like rusted-out industrial complexes. The first level has the oppressive feeling of being trapped in some kind of underwater structure (which it kinda is). I like the aesthetic but ymmw.
I played it on hard first, and it was pretty rough mainly thanks to it being stingy on health and ammo (plus strong enemies). Definitely one where finding secrets is a big benefit. There were more then a few moments where I had to quick save and load repeatedly with 5 HP left. When I finished it, I played through it again on normal and would recommend that, it’s much more manageable while still offering a challenge… a difficulty that fitted between normal and hard would be the perfect one, I think.
The biggest problem is that the levels can be pretty disorientating and easy to get lost in as many areas look the same, and so many places loop back into each other. Trying to remember where the door for a key you just picked up can be annoying too… flow isn’t great.
But overall I dug it and think it’s worth a shot if what I wrote sounds interesting to you.
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Glad that the old inside3d qc tutorial archive is still alive
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This is amazing. I’ve wanted to learn a little how QuakeC works, dreaming maybe I could do something cool in a map. Thanks for posting, it looks like a decent reference to keep on file so I’ll be adding it to my website.
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