Bloodborne October/November Book Club

so after PREY SLAUGHTERED-ing vicar amelia and the witches of eastwick or whathaveyou on my first try, i got all cocky and ended up getting my bloodpunk butt handed to me repeatedly by darkbeast paarl, so at least this game can still surprise me.

but in reflecting on what has transpired, i remembered there is this weird moment after i left oedon chapel for the first time, where i did some random thing and then ended up suspended in mid air as lots of health was drained from me? at the time i figured it was just some new game mechanic that would make more and more sense the more often it happened, but now iā€™m not so sure? what is going on with that?

also: iā€™m getting to the point where i donā€™t really have a firm grasp on what ā€˜insightā€™ is for. iā€™m not playing online at all (which is the only thing that makes me feel better about relying on walkthroughs and wikis constantly, since i miss out on the gameā€™s built in hint system), so maybe that has something to do with it, but i feel like iā€™m just racking up insight points constantly without any real purpose. i know that having higher insight changes enemy placement and whatnot, but it seems pretty subtle. i also have never used a single madman skull item just because i donā€™t know what they are for.

is polygonzo still playing this or what

i have actually been going back to the dead SB archive and browsing the BB thread there, good times. it was one of the last threads to be posted in before the fall, seems appropriate somehow.

wrt aesthetics, i feel like it is still easier for me to appreciate what they are doing on a kind of abstract level than it is for me to actually feel truly engaged with itā€“even though everything looks amazing for what it is, i still canā€™t help the feeling that all of the environments are just too interchangeable. the benefit is that everything seems to blend in really seamlessly together, and when you open up a path from one area that leads back to some other place that was otherwise totally unrelated, it doesnā€™t feel at all disjointed. but at the same time, this also means that every enemy type doesnā€™t really feel like it ā€˜belongsā€™ anywhere, like you could take one enemy from one end of the map and plop it down in a totally unrelated area, and it would still look kind of like it was designed ā€˜forā€™ that particular place.

even though i donā€™t really like it, i get that it is probably at least in part deliberate, since re-encountering various bad dudes in new places kind of helps you to strategize, or an enemy that was a piece of cake the first time you encounter it in one shape of level becomes a lot harder when you encounter it in a different place, or you have to deal with different groups of them and so on (one bag dude vs. one bag dude + two dogs vs. two bag dudes, etc), but it still makes the scope of the game feel more limited.

again, i suppose thatā€™s kind of the point, there is something really claustrophobic and dizzying about the way you move through the world in the game that i think kind of parallels the way gaining more insight makes the game world more threatening and creepier as you go, rather than moving forward into exploring uncharted territory, youā€™re just spiraling back on your own anxiety and sense of dread, which is its own form of escalation without progress

mechanically ds also felt that way, the constant retreads and opening new paths, but in that it still felt more like two steps forward one step back in terms of what you were actually looking at. here i feel like no matter how far you go, youā€™ll always end up back in yharnam eventually. itā€™s cool conceptually, but at times feels like kind of a drag to actually experience.

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This is a cool observation about early-game Bloodborne and very likely intentional.

Itā€™s mostly a currency for opting into multiplayer and for buying high-value items from the insight salesmessenger bath. Feel free to spend it on items from that shop if they look useful (or fashionable!), thatā€™s what insight is for. There are a few other subtle effects which serve to create a sense of mystery, but honestly those donā€™t amount to much.

Explore D M

the marquis is a comic about a warden hired by the church of a city to purge the streets of an infection running in its veins and consuming the townspeople and the clergy alike

the marquis is at times forced to be more beast than man

eventually, he discovers a rite of communion that originates with the church and creates the corruption he was hired to cut out of the wound

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Dunno, but I am now. Started a new offline game from scratch and Iā€™m taking my time, poking around every corner and revisiting areas to take photos. I was very pleased to find myself dying pretty frequently during the first loop-around to re-reach the first Central Yharnam lantern. I like seeing the encounter design manifest in ways I havenā€™t before as a result of adopting a comparatively playful playstyle and approaching routes from new angles.

You should just use every madman skull you find. As far as I know it only affects one boss fight, and not a very tough one at that; plus, you donā€™t lose insight upon death, unlike humanity in Dark Souls. Conceptually, insight is exactly the sort of system of mystery I think this game needed to recreate a sense of the unknown in the face of recycled design decisions, and itā€™s a little disappointing that its effects arenā€™t wider. Another cool idea the application of which I think suffered as a result of, as usual, rushed development. The idea that you could be unknowingly influencing the threat-level of the world your first time through a sort of innocuous consumption is a bit mean and really cool.

Itā€™ll make more sense when you have insight.

So you stumbled onto Yaharā€™gul, huh? What did you think of it?

I am enjoying it! I sort of half-understood how I could end up there from dorking around various walkthroughs and stuff, but didnā€™t really know what to expect once I was there. I basically sprinted out as fast as I could, then went back later after getting through the charnel lane place, explored around the rest of the area to look for stuff and then found paarl almost accidentally. i mean i knew there would be a boss around there somewhere but didnā€™t really imagine thatā€™s how it would be. pretty cool!

i still havenā€™t managed to get past paarl, though, after probably like a dozen tries. big challenge! will probably try to go do other stuff till i feel more powerful then give it another shot.

it probably would have been amazing to discover all of this stuff when the game was still new, but honestly that type of exploration usually only appeals to me in theory. i tend to get paralyzed with indecision in games that feel truly open ended and non linear, plus iā€™m really bad at figuring out video game style puzzles or waypoint searches or whatever. but i try to restrain myself from just playing with the wiki open next to me or whatever, until i get truly stuck.

as far as the look of the city, it feels atypical in a way that is kind of disorienting, especially with the carriages everywhere. i assume when i loop back around to that area later on iā€™ll be able to make sense of it better!

I saw this late, Iā€™d replay WITH a study buddy. I am HORRIBLE at these games, the worst.

Aw. Accidentally dying to the Bag Lugger/Lurker outside Oedon Chapel and reawakening in the prison, with zero awareness of what was happening, was probably my favorite experience with the game.

Iā€™ve been taking some photos.

This last view of a cityscape dominated in its upper regions by the traditional European signifiers of sacred architecture reminded me of two 19th century pieces ā€“ one by John Gandy, the other by Charles Robert Cockerell ā€“ both settled in between a typological and visionary space.

Iā€™ll add thoughts to this post later.

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Thoughts Iā€™m having:

  • This game is still challenging me and demanding relative consideration about how I approach gauntlets and bosses, despite 200+ hours of experience. I am faaaaairly certain my character is under-leveled (took on the Blood-starved Beast at level 20 (what a tense fight!!)), but that hasnā€™t tended to be a condition Iā€™ve thought about during runs of Dark Souls or Demonā€™s Souls. Iā€™m appreciating encountersā€™ push-and-pull dynamics the lack of a shield and the health-regaining mechanic encourage more and more every time I continue where I left off.

  • Honestly, I like the occasional slightly irritating moments of scarcity ā€“ of being low on or running out of blood vials/bullets, and needing to return to the Hunterā€™s Dream to stock up or spend a few minutes bashing groaners to pickpocket goods. I get the annoyance other people might have with how this reorients the pacing, especially if youā€™re raring to get revenge on a boss, but the contrast between this scenario and that of the Souls games, where your Estus flask is refilled every time you die/homeward bone/sit at a bonfire, or where you have a billion grasses to munch on forever, is one that I appreciate. It creates a brief interval where your means of life support are quantifiable and material. It doesnā€™t mean that I now want it in every comparable sort of game, though.

On prior playthroughs Iā€™d thought these tendrils were Great Ones but itā€™s pretty clear in this lighting that theyā€™re arboreal extensions from the Forbidden Woods. This really isnā€™t thematically present in the woods themselves, making me wonder if there were plans surrounding a sub-theme of natural, will-powered gigantism interacting with Yharnamā€™s structural integrity that didnā€™t pan out ā€“ except that a couple of details concerning it were left in anyway.

Do you have any files youā€™re stuck on or are you wanting to start from scratch?

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I have an old file, but I could start from scratch.

If I was gonna do this iā€™d have to jump on PS plus again, so Iā€™d wanna know people were up from some semi-rugular play since Iā€™d be putting money down.

I read this, thanks for the recommendation. My favorite part was hell, a shadow version of the city: http://imgur.com/a/ZYjeE

I still feel like one of the biggest weaknesses of Bloodborne is a lack of real direction in characters. In any of the Souls games, when people were getting frustrated, telling them to play a mage (or build towards it) was a pretty quick solution. Mages are jacks of all trades and had answers to basically any problem you could think of. (Hidden Body was an easy solution to being tracked by ranged enemies, Soul Arrow was a simple solution to not being good at the timings of certain enemy attacks, magic to increase your shieldā€™s usefulness - the list goes on). I would have never beaten Dark Souls 1 without Hidden Body because of the infamous archers in Anor Londo. I was incredibly frustrated and just didnā€™t want to keep going through it. Hidden Body made me feel it was possible, that there was an alternative. But Bloodborne had a number of these moments (Gascoigne being the first of many) where I wanted to quit after failing eight times in a row. And I didnā€™t feel like I had any recourse. I was limited in how much I could upgrade, I couldnā€™t improve to a point where some other option would work. And asking for help online was basically a stream of ā€œparry Gascoigneā€ despite having almost no experience in doing it. I never learned how to parry in Dark Souls because it was never something that felt necessary, and I still win most of my fights in that game with other players and can breeze through the game or try something experimental that may not work as well (but still feels like it works). Because there are real, reasonable alternatives to the way it seems like youā€™re supposed to fight.

But the best advice I can offer in Bloodborne isā€¦ to get the Threaded Cane (due to its range and crowd control when transformed) and try to make it work? I find a lot of issues aside from the mythos being conflicted to be related to how much it hampers progress via not really allowing options to do so (or maybe more accurately, obscuring those options from players who arenā€™t using guides). Bloodborneā€™s parry mechanic is ā€œgit gudā€ personified (parry at the right time or take a huge hit, without a lot of in-between, whereas Souls have partial parries which are very obvious). Itā€™s even stranger due to both the necessity and un-necssity of it, creating a lot of confusion about when itā€™s useful and when itā€™s not. The first time I beat Gascoigne I remember being forced to learn the parry despite having rarely used it before, yet the second time I beat him I didnā€™t use it at all, realizing that dodging was still more effective than risking taking the huge hit. I got to a point where I didnā€™t want to use the gun, because I basically wasnā€™t sure if it was going to work (and without a guide, it can be difficult to know when enemies are vulnerable, or if they even can be parried). But, I guess thatā€™s why I became less interested in playing it than watching other people play it. It is a gorgeous game with a lot of great architecture and references. Itā€™s just not one I ever got comfortable with.

My take is that I have four other comparable games ā€“ Demonā€™s Souls and the Dark Souls trilogy ā€“ if I want to have more variety in my characterā€™s attributes. I like Bloodborneā€™s concentrated design. I replay these games to uncover more of their emotional layers and to get a better handle on the quality of their worlds. Mechanical exploration is a vastly secondary concern. Thatā€™s just kind of frustrating for me because it felt like people moved on preemptively from this game because it wasnā€™t delivering what Dark Souls did (and I guess thatā€™s one reason why this thread is fairly inactive).

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Exploring the upper cathedral ward. I had this realization in prior playthroughs that the manor is like a fuller realization of the Aldiaā€™s Keep I had built in my imagination based on that early preview footage of Dark Souls 2. The manor is smaller than Aldiaā€™s Keep, but its layout and visual elements are comparable, and it benefits from having a bolder contrast between light and dark than Dark Souls 2 did. The little scripted scenario of having werewolves drop from the ceiling and destroy the illuminating chandelier is also a pretty effective dramatic device.

A shot of the church where you reawaken after defeating Rom. Sticks out to me for having an incredibly misleading exterior ā€“ the inside is simply a small vestibule and a huge circular main chamber, very unlike what the enormous hipped roof would suggest, tailed by an exit stairway. The sharp split here between suggestion and reality is something Iā€™d like to integrate into this architectural history Iā€™m building up as Iā€™ve been going along this run.

Buildings near the abandoned old workshop. This was a very interesting revelation the first time I happened upon it, I guess for reasons similar to the experience of finding Dark Souls 3ā€™s untended graves and darkened firelink shrine. A lot of Bloodborneā€™s narrative is still mysterious to me, though, so these overlaps and repetitions ā€“ the presence of at least two workshops, one in the ā€œdreamā€ and one in Yharnam ā€“ seem stranger and have a wider emotional resonance.

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Just went back to Cainhurst after needing a break from post-Rom intensity, this might be my favorite area in the game so far. It also feels the most dark souls-y, but I think the contrast with everything else in the game is what makes it so good. Iā€™ve always been fascinated with the idea of remote cities cut off from time, and the castle really feels that way compared to the urban grime of Yharnam. Plus itā€™s haunted! I do still wish there was more enemy variety (those ghost ladies get old quick), but I really like the gargoyles. I also like that it does the thing (which I know happens a lot in souls games) of forcing you to take a path that looks like a side route or maybe even accidentally traversable area that ends up actually being the way you have to go. The first game I played that did that really well was Jedi Knight, but Iā€™m sure it happens elsewhere too.

I havenā€™t beaten the boss yet, but I really appreciate it when they mix up oversized gargantuan bosses with a few quicker and smaller guys.

reflections

the moon is presaged in the water, exists in the lake before it manifests in the sky. The dark horror is crossing the liminal threshold ā€“ the worlds converging, the reality of the dream made true in the real.

When an elder being is birthed, it awakens in a different world. When you are injected, you are birthed in the dreamspace, nearly nude, level 1, your inheritance a token weapon.

The doll is real in the dream, in the dark night it ā€˜gives comfortā€™. By day it is wood and fabric.

Through your violence you reverse the flow. Force the waking into the dream. Kill the dream. Burn it with fire.

The castle lives in its fugue, delusional in power and influence. But it is enough to admire tapestries and ignore the dust, the decay.

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i really hope i can finish this game before the slime and blood grosses me out too much to finish it

i donā€™t know if iā€™ve ever spent this much time with something so abject, it is impressive!

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Itā€™s one of the strong suits of these games, having these quietly surprising moments where youā€™re repurposing architectural elements to get around. As a novice, when you first encounter the level designs in question, I think theyā€™re surprising ā€“ demands aside ā€“ because the mechanicsā€™ interactive limitedness makes buttress-scaling and collar-ties-walking seem like leaps of faith: dynamic actions for a fairly non-dynamic (in comparison to other videogamesā€™ movement options) avatar. By the time of Dark3, though, suspended traversal feels a bit too well worn.

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This is one of the undersung virtues of early 3D games and actually 3D MMOs in particular (lots of poorly-supervised content means lots of single-designer secrets)

WoW was so much more fun before Blizzardian focus testing polished it to death.

There once was a ladder, proud and tall, leading to nowhere in particular . . .

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