The Moon Fields * Combat Junior IIIrd Smash

Long, long ago The Moon fell through the sky. It crashed upon The Great Mountain and shattered into eight pieces. Fearing what had come, The Darkness hatched a plan. It forced the beasts of the land to find the pieces; it lured the men of the land to carve great tombs; and it entranced the priests of the land to cast away The Moon beneath the earth.

In the middle of developing The Moon Fields @sufresh and I made a multiplayer version of our combat system. We called it Combat Jr. We liked what we had so much that we fleshed it out into Super Combat Junior 2. As of April 6 2016 we are still finishing SCJr2, but weā€™re close! Weā€™re so close that Iā€™d like to spend some time reorganizing my thoughts here regarding Combat Jrā€™s future and The Moon Fields. We really want to put together a Moon Fields x Combat Junior combo cart, so, hereā€™s to it.

The end goal will be to release one game that has both an epic single player experience and a robust multiplayer experience. The exact same engine in The Moon Fields will be used in Combat Junior IIIrd Smash, so weā€™ll develop them simultaneously. Eventually there will be early access - probably to the multiplayer component - and the single player game will be tucked away for trusted individuals until it is ready to release to the world.

Table of Contents
Item Attributes
Swords & Blades

Item Attributes

The item system outlined in the first thread was one of my favorite posts. Bits and pieces of it were used in CJr2 and I think that minimal approach helped the speed and pacing find its place. The big thing that has changed from the original vision was that weapons were meant to have two modes: a fast spam-able mode for DPS and another slower mode (usually meant for big damage). The two modes were chosen by the player by either using it fast or waiting slowly. I still think this is a cool concept, but I think weā€™ll push that deeper into the game. Essentially it took us an entire game to realize that simpler was better :sweatpig:.

So by default each item only has one function

But when I said weā€™ll push the Charge concept deeper into the game I meant that some weapons will also have the ability to Charge. Some weapons already have the ability to Quickturn. And some other weapons will have abilities to have different functions depending on whether you push it standing still or while already moving.

This will help us differentiate weapons not just based on active, startup, cooldown, damage, and range, but on other mechanics. The Quickturn was a great example - we noticed that weapons that were relatively the same in all aspects besides Quickturn were better utilized in close quarters with Quickturn than without. I keep thinking of D&D 4th Ed as a reference point here, but I donā€™t play D&D, so I have no idea, really. Weā€™re going to call these things Item Attributes and items with the same Item Attributes will behave similarly.

Item Attributes:

QuickTurn ā€“ QuickTurn is activated on ANY activation
Turning rate will be discussed in detail later, but for now all you need to know is that different armors have different rates of turning. Some rotate slowly while others rotate quickly. Your direction affects your shield placement and to which direction you can attack except for when your weapon has QuickTurn. Look right and immediately pushing Left + Use on a QuickTurn item has your character look Left before using the item. This makes items more agile and easier to use in close quarters for armors without a fast turning rate.

Charge - if (timeSinceLastUse > ChargeTime) Charge activates instead of Use
On top of normal use, items with Charge will have a use that will be stronger that is activated by waiting for a period of time before use. The charged use can be different version than the normal use, but for he most part wonā€™t be worse or functionally change the item for the worse. Charge uses might increase damage, increase size of the hitbox, reduce recovery time (might be weird and cool? fast double use?).

PressMode ā€“ if (joystickIsPressed) PressMode activates instead of Use
Iā€™m not sure about this name, but the idea is that weapons will have totally different functions based on whether or not the user is pushing on the joystick. This means a Double Dagger item can be used to (double?) stab while pushing a direction on the joystick and using, but it can also stab in opposite directions if the joystick isnā€™t being used. Bows can shoot fast while pushing forward or can rotate to a direction while not. Bombs can be placed by standing still or thrown by pushing a direction. Essentially weapons that are supposed to be versatile will get Press Mode for multiple maneuvers.

Smash ā€“ if (joystickIsJustPressed) SmashMode activates instead of Use OR PressMode
Tap a direction plus hit a button to activate a third state. Very versatile weapons will have this for their strongest, slowest attacks.

DashUse
Some items also had the ability to be used while dashing. This mostly wasnā€™t a different use than regular (e.g. The Kings Sword and The Moonblade just stabbed like normal), but I think it could be cool. I do worry that this would alienate some players wanting a simpler, more pure experience, but I think that dashing is a thing that people really got the hang of in the game. Some items here that have different Dash Use than regular could be interesting.

ShieldCancel
Like the Souls games certain items were available to use while the player was already using another item. This was implemented because we made a Telescope item that projected a line of sight to help aiming projects. It was programmed like a shield that could be canceled into a Bow or Crossbow, but then we applied that to all other shields. Essentially you could cancel a shield into a sword or other items that we wanted to be more defensive. Weā€™ll probably remove the Shield Cancel from the Bow and Crossbow, but keep it in for our more defensive items. There might be a possible adjacent Item Attribute that doesnā€™t pull down the shield for use (e.g. bombs would get that? Maybe?).

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Swords & Blades
These weapons are the bread and butter of The Moon Fields. They are fast and relatively more versatile than any other weapon. They wonā€™t have the best range, but footsies will keep you in the game. Every one of these items has QuickTurn to increase your close combat agility.

Dagger
QuickTurn, smash, DashUse
Short range, weak, but throwable on smash.

Double Dagger
QuickTurn, PressMode, DashUse
Not exactly a pure upgrade to the Dagger. PressMode will be a double dagger strike forward while neutral use splits the daggers forward and back.

Iron Sword
QuickTurn
The Iron Sword is meant to be very average and boring. It is just slightly slower than the Moonblade but has higher damage to compensate.

Sword & Dagger
QuickTurn, PressMode, Charge, Smash
This weapon is even slower and more methodical compared to the Iron Sword. Neutral is a split attack, PressMode is a double stab, and Smash is a strong multi-stab.

Moonblade
QuickTurn, Charge, DashUse, Smash
The Moonblade makes up for its lack in damage by being quick and versatile. Its DashUse would be utilized to get into the fray as fast as possible.

Kings Sword
QuickTurn, Charge, DashUse, Smash
The Kings Sword is slower than the Moonblade, but it packs a bigger punch that can be even bigger by being more deliberate.

I HAVE TWO GAME DESIGN QUESTION FOR Yā€™ALL:

  1. How do you guys feel about the simplicity wrt Smash Bros.ā€™ nuetral, forward, and Smaaassshhh systems? We are interested in diversifying by having more controls, but we need this game to be super simple to play. Is it bad if most weapons donā€™t have it and some weapons do? We already are planning on PushMode which is essentially neutral and forward, but Smash would be a good way to get even more versatility. But, hey, last time I wanted versatility I realized that just having more items stacked on your character was good, so, like, maybe we just need more cool items.

  2. How do you guys feel about jumping in a Zelda game? I really like the idea of traversing the Y axis, but I feel like it will unnecessarily make things complex. I mean, if thereā€™s jumping then every armor will need to be able to jump. But if thereā€™s jumping then thereā€™s jumping. That means there can be cool complexity from jumping! If thereā€™s jumping we might need a specific jump button which breaks the customize-your-character-however-you-want. But we could also just attach the physical movement ā€œitemā€ to the armor and force it on a particular button. We are torn, so help, thanks.

!. Diversity
2.I like, evade, but hey just meā€¦

@Notymenow are you saying neutral, forward +, and smaaash are easy to understand? Or are you saying that the variety is ā€œworth itā€? Has anyone else had problems explaining Smash Bros. neutral, forward +, and smaaash mechanics to people?

And are you saying you like dodge/evade better than jump? I was thinking of not having jumping in The Moon Fields because itā€™s not like youā€™re really jumping on top of things? Maybe we could add something like ladders if we want more vertical motionā€¦

  1. Both, actually
  2. yes, just i.m.o. thoughā€¦
    note - ladders sound gut!

Weā€™re gonna show off combat jr 2 at a convention today. Stoked.

Sounds stokatitis, dude!

For the longest time I was embarrassed about how podunk my little home state could be, and while Midwest Gaming Convention was super podunk it was also pretty amazing.

Anyways! We got a lot of great feedback from the convention. Essentially the game is tight and fun and needs more something. I donā€™t think following the conventional ā€œmore everythingā€ approach is going to be what we want to do, but weā€™ll figure it out.

Weā€™re going to do some quality of life/accessibility improvements in the next month. We want to apply for IndieCade by mid May and have our game out for purchase on itch.io the next week. Essentially itā€™s going to be the same build we have now but cleaned up. If anyone here wants to try a demo version and/or stream Iā€™d be super happy to oblige.

This summer weā€™re going to be updating the game to version 3 - essentially fix some foundational issues to build the game as big and as freely as we want. We talked about releasing for Steam Greenlight/Kickstarter at the end of summer, but Iā€™m hesitant because we donā€™t even have the demo dungeon started in any way. Weā€™ll see how much work we get done on it!

Hereā€™s the video from the location test at the bar I work at. Cheers

? - do two types of jumping, not sure itā€™ll be an answer, but;
Fwd+Jump does
A ā€˜three-panelā€™ jump,
Just jump does
ā€™Linkā€™s Awakeningā€™ get one panel up

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Yeah I think boots will teach versatility with movement options. Some boots will be simple one mechanic while others will have more. Jump up, leap, dash, run, roll, maybe even add a kick in there. The more versatility the more low carry capacity armors will be useful.

Weā€™re trying to think of ways to have a big crazy hook. Games I like have infinite hooks like Spelunky or Nuclear Throne. Thereā€™s also games like Sports Friends that use the playerā€™s ability to judge analogous things (eg time or literal analog sticks) to allow for learning. The way aiming works right now with analog sticks seems to work hereā€¦

Part of what made people happy was the quick customization of their character. Essentially there are hundreds of thousands of character types you can pick right now and each one is unique. We want to force people to learn multiple items eg decide if they picked just the right sword or not.

We added this thing called moon showers that rain down on you if you take too long. And we added our post match win counter.

We are getting real close! We just need to add a tool tip and 360 and keyboard inputs and CJr2 is ready for release!!!

Yes! Tooltips & 360 support added! We are applying to Indiecade now! Ahhh.

The itch.io portal page. Ahh. Going to replace the youtube vid with our trailer proper.

You can buy the game from this page: https://interdimensional.itch.io/super-combat-jr-ii

Uhhhhhh